Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

[allenwayne]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

wait a minute george are you stating that if a dupex is part of the required receptacles in a dining area that part 1/2 can satisfy the lighting requirement The code does say receptacle not a duplex As long as it is part of a daisy chain it doesn`t have to be 20 amp for SA circuit 15 amp is ok.Boy now I am confused

 

[physis]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

You could put singles throughout the house. As far as I know. Are there any requirements for a duplex?

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Why not run 12-3 to the dining room receptacles.Red for the half being used as lights and black for required SA ,then continue the the black to the kitchen.Could back switch what ever outlets you want switched.Never done this but it would meet code.

 

[mc5w]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

However, using the switched outlet that is on a SA circuit to supply a table lamp is illegal.

If you are going to have a switched lighting receptacle in the dining room, make it a locking receptacle. You could one of the ones from Lutron that have a funny nose for dimmable loads but you would have to use a dimmer for it. Then, change the plug on the china cabinet.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Use a 12/2 from swiched receptacle box to switch location and phase white ,cut in as a switch loop and all aspects are covered And the code doesn`t state there has to be a duplex just a receptacle so with a lamp plugged in the spacing requirements are still met

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

However, using the switched outlet that is on a SA circuit to supply a table lamp is illegal.

Where do you find that article ?

 

[iwire]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by georgestolz:
If a duplex is installed, as we all usually do, then the top receptacle is installed per 250.52. The other half can be the required lighting-outlet-replacing-receptacle permitted by the exception to 210.70(A)(1), right?

I agree with that 100%.

 

[iwire]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

By the way.

Where does it say the SA circuit can not be switched?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Jeez, Bob, thanks for the support. But what did 250.52 have to do with our discussion?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

That's the key. The dining room lighting outlet can be a switched receptacle per 210.70(A)(1), exception 1.

Which leads us back to 210.52(B)(1) that states that receptacle needs to be on the SA circuit. Then there is an exception that permits a 15 amp switched receptacle for the job if desired.

It's not required to be on a different circuit than the SA, it's permitted. Cheap and sloppy as it may be, the dining room chandelier can be an 89? duplex.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

One additional note, IMO, the reasoning behind 210.(A)(1)'s exception excluding kitchens and bathrooms from the "89? free-for-all" is because requiring a homeowner to plug in a lamp to see to wash the dishes or their hands consitutes a safety hazard. IMO.

 

[iwire]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

George now we are starting to see things differently.

IMO you may not feed the required lighting outlet from the SA circuit.

If the room has a ceiling lighting outlet that takes care of 270.(A)(1) then IMO you may switch one or more of the SA receptacles and plug in a optional lamp (or china cabinet as OP was asking about).

IMO if you try to have the SA circuit feed the 270.(A)(1) required lighting outlet you run into a violation of 210.52(B)(2).

210.52(B)(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets.

JMO, and I am curious to what others think?

 

[davedottcom]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

By "GEORGE" I think your right!

And it IS a 1/2 hot outlet by the way.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Bob, you're right. The SA circuit cannot feed a lighting outlet in the dining room. But the lighting outlet can be omitted if one of the SA receptacles in the dining room is switched.

 

[davedottcom]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

quote:210.52(B)(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets.

JMO, and I am curious to what others think?

I agree with that also! I don't consider A ceiling light fixture a small appliance so putting the Din. rm. ceiling light on the SA circuit Would be adding "Other" outlets.

Dave

 

[iwire]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by georgestolz:
But the lighting outlet can be omitted if one of the SA receptacles in the dining room is switched.

IMO no that would be a violation of the no other outlets rule.

Inspector: George where is the required lighting outlet?

George: Right there, that switched outlet on the SA circuit.

Inspector: You want me to consider that SA fed outlet as the required lighting outlet?

George: Yes

Inspector: You may not have 'other' outlets on the SA circuit. Put in another circuit for the required lighting outlet.

George: May the homeowner plug in a lighted china cabinet to the SA circuit?

Inspector: Sure.

[ March 26, 2005, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

It is not ANY OTHER OUTLET.It is the legal receptacle outlet on the SA circuit,just happens to be switched.Is there any code saying i can't plug in a lamp on my kitchen counter ? NO .So why can't i plug lamp in dining room receptacle ? As long as i don't add a lightining or other outlet i am ok.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

You forgot the preliminary discussion:

George: How are the kids? Did you catch that Eagles game the other night? Great weather we've been having, ey?

Inspector: You want me to consider that SA fed outlet as the required lighting outlet?

George: Yes

Inspector: You may not have 'other' outlets on the SA circuit. Put in another circuit for the required lighting outlet.

George: I don't need a lighting outlet in the dining room, per exception 1 to 210.70(A)(1);

210.70(A)(1) Habitable Rooms. At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.

Exception No. 1: In other than kitchens or bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.

George: It's not a bathroom. It's not a kitchen. The receptacles provided may be switched in lieu of a lighting outlet. It's not violating 210.52(B)(2), because that receptacle is required to be on the SA circuit.

Inspector: You deserve a raise.

Editted to maintain the continuity of the discussion.

[ March 26, 2005, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by jimwalker:
Is there any code saying i can't plug in a lamp on my kitchen counter ? NO .

Careful, Jim. You can't require the resident to, by the exception. It is a kitchen, you must provide a lighting outlet, per 210.70(A)(1). I know what you're saying, but careful how you say it.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

I know it's a fine line.Not suggesting it be the required light.Did install a floresent 2 footer above my mothers kitchen sink and pluged it in.That is not a violation.Now if i choose to have wall sconces in dining room for the required lighting and plug them into a switched SA outlet where is violation ? Notice i said plug and not hard wired.Not saying i think its a good idea but do think it complies.Am open to being corrected on this if anyone has code references saying i can't