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GFCI 2020--UH OH

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    GFCI 2020--UH OH

    The 2020 from online does not paste as well as the pdf. I have to clean it up--ugh
    Notice the boldface



    210.8(A) Dwelling Units.

    All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (A)⁠(11) and supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. (1)Bathrooms
    (2)Garages and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use
    (3)Outdoors
    Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a branch circuit dedicated to electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline and vessel heating equipment shall be permitted to be instal⁠led in accordance with 426.28 or 427.22, as applicable.
    (4)Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
    (5)Basements
    Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.
    Informational Note: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power supply requirements for fire alarm systems.

    Receptacles installed under the exception to 210.8(A)⁠(5) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements of 210.52(G).
    (6)Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces
    (7)Sinks — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) from the top inside edge of the bowl of the sink
    (8)Boathouses
    (9)Bathtubs or shower stalls — where receptacles are instal⁠led within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the bathtub or shower stall
    (10)Laundry areas
    Exception to (1) through (3), (5) through (8), and (10): Listed locking support and mounting receptacles utilized in combination with compatible attachment fittings installed for the purpose of serving a ceiling luminaire or ceiling fan shall not be required to be ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected. If a general-purpose convenience receptacle is integral to the ceiling luminaire or ceiling fan, GFCI protection shall be provided.
    (11)Indoor damp and wet locations
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky

    #2
    All the FA and SD circuits I've installed don't need receptacles... they're hard-wired.

    Comment


      #3
      What about other than dwelling units?

      Tom
      TBLO

      Comment


        #4
        And do we get to do the 'is it one phase or two dance' when feeding from two legs of a residential service

        Comment


          #5
          I just shake my head. Ugh.

          Had a client this last summer that called me in to help with a number of items as she listed her house for sale. One was the forced air furnace air conditioning condensate pump that is cord and plug connected to a GFCI receptacle outlet.

          The forced air furnace / AC / condensate pump were brand new three years ago and installed as part of a basement finishing remodel. The GFCI was new at that same time. Within a year, under the remodeler's warranty, the GFCI and condensate pump were replaced. The homeowner reported that the furnace would run, but even when the thermostat was calling for the AC, the AC was locked out because the condensate reservoir was over-full and the GFCI was tripped.

          When I was called in, the AC was again being called for, but not running. Upon investigation I found the GFCI (with only the condensate pump plugged in) to be tripped. I unplugged the pump, tested the GFCI sensitivity and found it would hold 3.0 milliAmps, and trip at 5.0 milliAmps. The pump itself was still the problem. Sigh.

          This particular forced air furnace did not have combustion condensate to collect and pump, but a lot of them, in my area, do. I just can't wait for the reports of house-freeze loss to come as we go further into a world stuffed with GFCIs and AFCIs.
          Another Al in Minnesota

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ptonsparky View Post
            What about other than dwelling units?
            Here is the 2020 on non dwelling


            10.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.

            All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground, 50 amperes or less, and all receptacles supplied by three-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground, 100 amperes or less, installed in the locations specified in 210.8(B)(1) through (B)(12) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. (1)

            Bathrooms
            (2)

            Kitchens or areas with a sink and permanent provisions for either food preparation or cooking
            (3)

            Rooftops

            Exception: Receptacles on rooftops shall not be required to be readily accessible other than from the rooftop.


            (4)

            Outdoors

            Exception No. 1 to (3) and (4): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a branch circuit dedicated to electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline and vessel heating equipment shall be permitted to be installed in accordance with 426.28 or 427.22, as applicable.

            Exception No. 2 to (4): In industrial establishments only, where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified personnel are involved, an assured equipment grounding conductor program as specified in 590.6(B)(2) shall be permitted for only those receptacle outlets used to supply equipment that would create a greater hazard if power is interrupted or having a design that is not compatible with GFCI protection.


            (5)

            Sinks — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) from the top inside edge of the bowl of the sink

            Exception No. 1 to (5): In industrial laboratories, receptaclesused to supply equipment where removal of power would introduce a greater hazard shall be permitted to be installed without GFCI protection.





            Exception No. 2 to (5): Receptacles located in patient bed locations of Category 2 (general care) or Category 1 (critical care) spaces of health care facilities shall be permitted to comply with 517.21.


            (6)

            Indoor damp and wet locations
            (7)

            Locker rooms with associated showering facilities
            (8)

            Garages, accessory buildings, service bays, and similar areas other than vehicle exhibition halls and showrooms
            (9)

            Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
            (10)

            Unfinished areas of basements

            Exception to (1) through (5), (8), and (10): Listed locking support and mounting receptacles utilized in combination with compatible attachment fittings installed for the purpose of serving a ceiling luminaire or ceiling fan shall not be required to be ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected. If a general-purpose convenience receptacle is integral to the ceiling luminaire or ceiling fan, GFCI protection shall be provided.



            (11)

            Laundry areas

            (12)

            Bathtubs and shower stalls — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the bathtub or shower stall
            They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
            She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
            I can't help it if I'm lucky

            Comment


              #7
              Is there much of a change?
              Rob

              Moderator

              All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by infinity View Post
                Is there much of a change?
                Much change in non dwelling? Not alot... the bold face has the re-wording or changes

                The laundry is new along with shower stalls and bathtubs
                They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
                She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
                I can't help it if I'm lucky

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by al hildenbrand View Post
                  I just shake my head. Ugh.

                  This particular forced air furnace did not have combustion condensate to collect and pump, but a lot of them, in my area, do. I just can't wait for the reports of house-freeze loss to come as we go further into a world stuffed with GFCIs and AFCIs.
                  ...or flooded basements due to the sump pump GFCI receptacle nuisance-tripping. Or cold water due to hi-efficiency water heater vent GFI outlet tripped. The list goes on; it's getting ridiculous! At least I'm glad I don't have to deal with AFCI's at all, since Michigan doesn't require them anywhere.

                  At the end of the day, the fact still remains that it's not any less safe to live in a house built 25 years ago before all this other GFCI and AFCI b.s. was required than it is to live in a house built today.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Seems like this is going to require 30A 120/240V clothes dryer outlets to be GFCI'd as well as shop 240V receptacles (welders, compressors, large power tools). Has anyone seen these (6-15, 6-20, 14-30) in GFCI receptacle versions, or are we going to have to pay for the expensive double pole GFCI breakers?
                    Mark
                    Kent, WA

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by suemarkp View Post
                      Seems like this is going to require 30A 120/240V clothes dryer outlets to be GFCI'd as well as shop 240V receptacles (welders, compressors, large power tools). Has anyone seen these (6-15, 6-20, 14-30) in GFCI receptacle versions, or are we going to have to pay for the expensive double pole GFCI breakers?
                      how's >> https://www.ebay.com/p/20020287449?i...BoCuVcQAvD_BwE
                      ~RJ~

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by romex jockey View Post
                        Wow...”will not typically fit in a loadcenter.”

                        Buy several.
                        Tom
                        TBLO

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ptonsparky View Post

                          Wow...”will not typically fit in a loadcenter.”

                          Buy several.
                          Also note the review that the "New" breaker was cracked and repaired with epoxy.....

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by suemarkp View Post
                            Seems like this is going to require 30A 120/240V clothes dryer outlets to be GFCI'd as well as shop 240V receptacles (welders, compressors, large power tools). Has anyone seen these (6-15, 6-20, 14-30) in GFCI receptacle versions, or are we going to have to pay for the expensive double pole GFCI breakers?
                            I've not heard of, let alone seen, any 120/240, or 240 Volt Class A GFCI devices of any type, yet.

                            So, yes, Mark, the ridiculously high priced breakers seem to be the only choice, as of now.
                            Another Al in Minnesota

                            Comment


                              #15
                              One would thing the time honored torroid far from exclusive marketing....~RJ~

                              Comment

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