Where are Tamper Resistant Receptacles Required (Via PM)

[iwire]

I was asked the following question via PM and while I have an opinion about the answer I think it would be better if other people chimed in as well

The 2008 code book in my opinion is unclear where they require tamper resistant plugs. They list areas for tamper resistant plugs 210.52 - kitchen, family room, dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom, bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or areas of dwelling units.

I took a CEU that listed the attic and garage as areas that need tamper resistant plugs. Those areas are not similar in my opinion to the areas listed in 210.52. Do you have a definative answer?

This is a major change to the 2005 code. It did not discuss this change in the 2008 Master calculations dvd library I bought from Mike Holt. They did discuss the afci breaker code change

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The rule in 406.11 says all areas that are specified in 210.52. The only areas that I don't see specified in 210.52 are crawl spaces and attics.

 

[electricmanscott]

It makes no sense to worry about where TR are required or not in a dwelling. Just put them everywhere (pretty much required anyway) and be done with it. It's only a matter of a few dollars.

 

[iwire]

Just put them everywhere (pretty much required anyway) and be done with it. It's only a matter of a few dollars.

If I was inspecting your job and I said that to you what would you do?

 

[Jim Shorts]

Closets are not mentioned in 210.52 as well.

 

[JWCELECTRIC]

I was asked the following question via PM and while I have an opinion about the answer I think it would be better if other people chimed in as well

Iwire,

As far as the Mike holt library how do you rate the software and it's use? I am looking for something that is not expensive like SKM or others? Thanks

- JC

 

[iwire]

Iwire,

As far as the Mike holt library how do you rate the software and it's use? I am looking for something that is not expensive like SKM or others? Thanks

- JC

I will be honest here, I do not own any of Mike's products. When I have needed training I went to night classes.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

I would consider that it mentions 210.52 and the intent to protect children. As such I would agree to every where but unfinished attics and crawl spaces. I would include closets.

 

[Jim Shorts]

How could you include closets in this requirement but not crawl spaces? Everywhere else in the code where a requirement is made that pertains to closets the word closets is clearly used (not the case in 210.52 or 406.11). Such as luminaires and overcurrent devices that have specific requirements for clothes closets. I would say that crawl spaces are outside and are already covered in 210.52 and thus would require tamper proof receptacles. We cannot inspect on intent.

 

[iwire]

I would say that crawl spaces are outside

So all wiring in crawl spaces must be UF and WP boxes?

I disagree that a typical crawl space is outside.

 

[Jim Shorts]

I personally would not require those wiring methods, but it is definitely not indoors.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

If I was inspecting your job and I said that to you what would you do?

Grin and bare it because 210.52(A) says any area the AHJ finds similar to the those listed.....

BTW I have a lot of MH products and they very good yet expensive.

the Changes to the NEC 2008 MH book says:

In dwelling units, all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles shall be listed as tamper resistant."

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I love when a debate depends on common definitions...

From Websters

not enclosed : having no roof

 

[iwire]

I personally would not require those wiring methods, but it is definitely not indoors.

I can not agree with you, four walls, a roof, closed off to varmints, it sounds like a short cellar to me and my cellar is definitely indoors.

 

[iwire]

Grin and bare it because 210.52(A) says any area the AHJ finds similar to the those listed.....

Ouch, that hurts.

My own view turned against me.

 

[gndrod]

A few $$$ xtra

A few $$$ xtra

Grin and bare it because 210.52(A) says any area the AHJ finds similar to the those listed.....

the Changes to the NEC 2008 MH book says:

In dwelling units, all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles shall be listed as tamper resistant."

There is a difference from the MH book as you mention compared to the NEC [406.11] statement basically.....All 15, 20Amp, 125V receptacles in all areas specified in [210.52] shall be listed as tamper resistant.

NEC [210.52] does not specify areas such as ceiling hatch accessed attics, underfloor crawl spaces, roof service maintenance, and kitchen locations. The cost difference between a standard GFCI and a Tamper resistant GFCI is appreciable.

For the same roof service outlet with a Tamper-weather resistant device will cost an additional $10 each. Do a multi-dwelling project bid without considering these factors and costs could amount to a lot more than a few dollars. rbj

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

There is a difference from the MH book as you mention compared to the NEC [406.11] statement basically.....All 15, 20Amp, 125V receptacles in all areas specified in [210.52] shall be listed as tamper resistant.

NEC [210.52] does not specify areas such as ceiling hatch accessed attics, underfloor crawl spaces, roof service maintenance, and kitchen locations. The cost difference between a standard GFCI and a Tamper resistant GFCI is appreciable.

For the same roof service outlet with a Tamper-weather resistant device will cost an additional $10 each. Do a multi-dwelling project bid without considering these factors and costs could amount to a lot more than a few dollars. rbj

your right. I hope the code spells it out more clearly in 2011. It should not be that incpectors lean this way and that. All the bidders should be a an even playing field....

If it were me, I would bid it as if the entire house needed the TR and everything not inside needs the WP receps.

 

[electricmanscott]

The cost difference between a standard GFCI and a Tamper resistant GFCI is appreciable.

TR GFCI cost $13.40

What does a "standard" gfci cost?

 

[electricmanscott]

NEC [210.52] does not specify areas such as ceiling hatch accessed attics, underfloor crawl spaces, roof service maintenance, and kitchen locations.

210 52 Does mention kitchen receptacles.


MY earlier point as fas as cost goes is geared more toward labor than the receptacles themselves.

Having to keep track of maybe two or three standard receptacles on a finish is going to be silly. One five minute trip out to the truck to get one is going to blow the minimal savings that standard receptacle may bring.

 

[cschmid]

and we wonder why the building industry has hit a slow time. with no jobs and increased costs who can afford to build. except the rich and they only need few electricians.

so how are elctrical companies dealing with the increased cost of jobs? how many have layed off employees?

Is it really necessary to put tamper resistant in service areas only? If it is required everywhere in the home why do box store sell other outlets? just thought at random and we wonder why...