woul you rewire this ??? or not ???

[LarryFine]

sounds like a hot springs setup; the 30A GFCI circuit gets the neutral.

I thought the 30a circuit was for the heater element, and the 20a for motors, controls, and lighting.

 

[brantmacga]

I thought the 30a circuit was for the heater element, and the 20a for motors, controls, and lighting.

all the hot springs tubs i've done took the neutral from the 30A.

the controls may be connected with the heat. next time i do one i'll take another look at the schematic.

 

[bradleyelectric]

Please inform me to make my self a better electrician than being called a names not needed (not by you bradley)

Outside conduits need wire rated for outdoor use - THWN

I'd think that running romex inside and then converting to conduit somewhere before you penetrate the wall would work out. Run the conduit straight out into a box or LB or whatever and go from there.

This is not neccessary. It wouldn't be a problem to run romex into the back of a box than change to pipe w/ THWN at that point.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Using 680.42(C) is not permissible if the NM cable is supplying a feeder. It is permissible if one is supplying equipment only. Read the section carefully.
680.25 is the section to read if one is supplying a feeder.

What constitutes a feeder? Read the definition of feeder in Article 100.
So, if there are overcurrent devices between the wiring from the panel inside the building to the Spa Assembly, then you cannot take advantage of 680.42(C).

 

[growler]

Went to a house and found ahot-tub wired like this--- from the main panel a 2p 50 breaker feeding with a 8-2 romex( through the attic and then to exterior wall then, sleeved in pvc down to a spa panel). The hot tub requires (1) 2p 20amp and (1) 2p 30amp circuit.. There is no neutral wire or additional ground rod!!!! Should I repull w/ 6-3 seperate the neutal/ground or do as my other journymal suggests and use the romex grd as a neutral and isolate the ground by driving a ground rod???? or put it back the way I found it??? GOTTA-GO play baseball w/youngen DENNIS

You do need to rewire it if the homeowner is willing to pay for a correct install, otherwise document what you have found as far as violations and give a copy to the homeowner and keep a copy for your records.

If the homeowner doesn't want to pay for the rewire see if they will at least give the name of whoever did the work in the first place and keep the name of the installer with the documentation.

This sounds like a typical handyman job to me and is the real reason I don't like to see handyman work, they tend to cut corners to keep the price down but never check to see what is required by code.

I have seen hot tubs installed by handymen cheaper than I can buy the materials to do the job correctly. There is no way to compete with that sort of work.

 

[George Stolz]

rt66, you need to take a look at this if you believe that a ground rod would replace an EGC at the hot tub.

 

[electricguy61]

Using 680.42(C) is not permissible if the NM cable is supplying a feeder. It is permissible if one is supplying equipment only. Read the section carefully.
680.25 is the section to read if one is supplying a feeder.

What constitutes a feeder? Read the definition of feeder in Article 100.
So, if there are overcurrent devices between the wiring from the panel inside the building to the Spa Assembly, then you cannot take advantage of 680.42(C).

Just a question Pierre: Do you believe this is a safety issue, or one of those quirks in the code?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see what difference it makes if the wires are in a romex or a conduit, as long as they are sized and otherwise installed appropriately. I might add that I've never had a spa I wired this way fail an inspection (I realize that doesn't make it right)

 

[mistabass]

Thank you for setting it straight didn't read it properly

 

[jimport]

Pierre,

I too would like to hear you expand on the .25 vs .42 install. How would this be different functionally?

 

[Jerseydaze]

Heres one that comes up the ground in a 6-3 rx is #10 So home owner tells you he need a 50 amp line no prob 6-3 to spa panel 50 gfi break to pipe or liquid tight so you run the rx mount the panel go to run to the tub and you see a sticker that the hot tub manufacturer requires a #6 ground OK
A ignore it code says #10
B Run #6 ground from tub panel (still #10 In RX from main)
C Rip out rx and run pipe and a #6 from main
D scratch the sticker off

 

[mistabass]

.25-a they fed a spa panel which i belive is a feeder .42 sounds like if you bring it wright to the spa

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Just a question Pierre: Do you believe this is a safety issue, or one of those quirks in the code?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see what difference it makes if the wires are in a romex or a conduit, as long as they are sized and otherwise installed appropriately. I might add that I've never had a spa I wired this way fail an inspection (I realize that doesn't make it right)

Pierre,

I too would like to hear you expand on the .25 vs .42 install. How would this be different functionally?

Remember, I did not write this, I am just the reader.
From what I have been told, the main reason behind this is the protection of the EGC. The CMP wants as much protection of the EGC as is possible.

.25-a they fed a spa panel which i belive is a feeder .42 sounds like if you bring it wright to the spa

Yes, that is ths jist of it.

 

[jimport]

I wonder why the manufacturers specify a #6 ground for some tubs. Any ideas?

 

[electricguy61]

If the romex is exposed to physical damage, it would be an illegal installation.

Hmmm.

Thanks for your input, Pierre

 

[jimport]

Remember, I did not write this, I am just the reader.
From what I have been told, the main reason behind this is the protection of the EGC. The CMP wants as much protection of the EGC as is possible.

I don't see how OCP vs a pullout disco near the tub would make any difference in regards to the EGC or its level of protection. I must be missing something?