eye glasses @ Wallmart

[Hendrix]

Would anyone even consider the perscription centers at malls or stores for eye glasses a patient care area ??????

 

[shockin]

I've never been to an eye doctor - but doesn't that big piece of equipment they make you look thru use electricity? If so, then a redundant ground is not a bad thing.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

In the exam room yes

 

[charlie b]

I think not. You don't have a "patient care area," unless you first have a "health care facility." IMHO, the definition of that term does not address vision exams. Optometrists and Opticians are not MDs. If the facility has provisions for the services of an Ophthalmologist, then you have crossed the line into medicine. I have seen several drug stores have blood pressure screening machines (that do use electricity). I would not call them patient care areas either. I have an electrically operated blood pressure machine at home. I do not consider my bathroom a patient care area. In order to be talking about patient care, we need to have patients. A person getting an eye exam is a customer, not a patient.

 

[charlie b]

If so, then a redundant ground is not a bad thing.

Being a good idea does not make something a code requirement, of course. :wink:

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I'll just give my opinion.

A lot of sprawl-marts that I have seen don't have an ophthalmologist or optometrist that work there... They only have an optician. An optician is not a doctor and without a doctor that cannot do anything medical (such as give out medicine or diagnose eye diseases)..... basically they fit glasses....

It is just MO but if you don't have a ophthalmologist or optometrist that work there than you don't meet the definition of health care facility and therefore don't have any patient care areas.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I think not. You don't have a "patient care area," unless you first have a "health care facility." IMHO, the definition of that term does not address vision exams. Optometrists and Opticians are not MDs. If the facility has provisions for the services of an Ophthalmologist, then you have crossed the line into medicine. I have seen several drug stores have blood pressure screening machines (that do use electricity). I would not call them patient care areas either. I have an electrically operated blood pressure machine at home. I do not consider my bathroom a patient care area. In order to be talking about patient care, we need to have patients. A person getting an eye exam is a customer, not a patient.

We are almost on the same page except an Optometrists does diagnose and treat eye problems and diseases, and prescribe many ophthalmic medications. IMO this makes the portion of the building he works in to provide medical care.

 

[ericsherman37]

I'm blind as a bat so I visit the eye doctor often

I actually inquired about this not too long ago - my optometrist is in an older building but when he moved in he brought his exam room and lab room up to code for their respective areas. He didn't say if the inspector required it or not, but the point is, that's the way he did it.

In my opinion, any patient exam room should be wired according to 517, no matter how benign the type of examination.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

In my opinion, any patient exam room should be wired according to 517, no matter how benign the type of examination.

IMO only the exam rooms that meet the NEC definition of patient care area should be treated as patient care areas

 

[cowboyjwc]

You also need to look at the definition of health care facilities. Optometrist is not listed.

 

[raider1]

You also need to look at the definition of health care facilities. Optometrist is not listed.

The definition of a health care facility does not include specific medical licenses. For example you don't see podiatrist or urologist specifically listed in the definition of health care facility but I would call the building or portion of the building they work in a health care facility.

Chris

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

The definition of a health care facility does not include specific medical licenses. For example you don't see podiatrist or urologist specifically listed in the definition of health care facility but I would call the building or portion of the building they work in a health care facility.

Chris

No but it does say buildings in which medical care is provided which would include podiatrist and urologist. When I look at the definition of medical IMO you have to have a doctor providing care or a facility with the ability to diagnose disease and prescribe medicines.

IMO it wouldn't include an optician running a vision machine any more than it would include the DMV people giving eye exams to get a drivers license.

 

[raider1]

No but it does say buildings in which medical care is provided which would include podiatrist and urologist. When I look at the definition of medical IMO you have to have a doctor providing care or a facility with the ability to diagnose disease and prescribe medicines.

IMO it wouldn't include an optician running a vision machine any more than it would include the DMV people giving eye exams to get a drivers license.

My comment was in response to the point that because an optometrist was not listed in the definition of health care facility that made it not a health care facility. Again my point was that no specific medical license is listed in the definition, it is left up the the AHJ to decide what constitutes "medical care".

I am not arguing that an optician running a vision machine would necessarily be a health care facility.

Chris

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

My comment was in response to the point that because an optometrist was not listed in the definition of health care facility that made it not a health care facility. Again my point was that no specific medical license is listed in the definition, it is left up the the AHJ to decide what constitutes "medical care".

I am not arguing that an optician running a vision machine would necessarily be a health care facility.

Chris

Ok gotcha. And to be clear I completely agree with you. It's fun to try to interpret what the NEC means by medical care etc... but it comes down to the AHJs interpretation....

Absolutely agree.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

You also need to look at the definition of health care facilities. Optometrist is not listed.

Health Care Facilities.
Health care facilities include, but are not limited to,...

Depending on the care provided, there are some optometrist type locations that would be considered as patient care areas.

See Patient Care Areas,
General Care Areas.
(In the parenthesis, see the term; ophthalmoscopes-used for viewing the interior of the eye)

 

[iwire]

Depending on the care provided, there are some optometrist type locations that would be considered as patient care areas.

I agree and think the opening poster would be well advised to ask the AHJ and not take our word for it. :smile:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I agree and think the opening poster would be well advised to ask the AHJ and not take our word for it. :smile:

Hey!!!
4 minutes after I post, you answer...
It took me some time to look up the meanings of the words, and gather my thoughts of how to correctly say what I said, even though I did not say too much. :grin:

 

[steve66]

I think not. You don't have a "patient care area," unless you first have a "health care facility." IMHO, the definition of that term does not address vision exams. Optometrists and Opticians are not MDs. If the facility has provisions for the services of an Ophthalmologist, then you have crossed the line into medicine. I have seen several drug stores have blood pressure screening machines (that do use electricity). I would not call them patient care areas either. I have an electrically operated blood pressure machine at home. I do not consider my bathroom a patient care area. In order to be talking about patient care, we need to have patients. A person getting an eye exam is a customer, not a patient.

But with the blood pressure machines, you are operating them yourself. You are not paying someone to operate the machine and interpert the readings. I think that's a key difference.

I would lean toward this being patient care. Even a walmart will give everyone a glacoma test. IMO, that's healthcare.

But I think there are also some good arguments otherwise. I think its a great example: No mater how exact and specific they try to make the NEC, there will always be grey areas that require an inspector to use their own personal opinion or judgement. There is just no way to make everything black & white.

Steve

 

[cowboyjwc]

I know what it says, that's why I posted. It does give specific items, medical, dental, psychiatric, nursing, obsterical, or surgical care. No where in there does it say, etc or similar areas.

In my opinion, eye exams do not fall under any of those headings.

Now if they did laser surgery, I would have a whole different opinion.

 

[iwire]

No where in there does it say, etc or similar areas.

but are not limited to