eye glasses @ Wallmart

[Hendrix]

I agree and think the opening poster would be well advised to ask the AHJ and not take our word for it. :smile:

The poster is the AHJ, and I won't require AC cable in this application. I meerly wanted to hear some other opinions. :smile:

 

[jsinclair]

In my area those blood pressure stations in the Wal Mart pharmacy and other pharmacies have been deemed "patient care areas" by the AHJ. It was also a question on my inspectors test I took this spring. The locals said that "any location a person receives medical treatment or diagnostic testing takes place is considered a patient care area".

 

[Hendrix]

In my area those blood pressure stations in the Wal Mart pharmacy and other pharmacies have been deemed "patient care areas" by the AHJ. It was also a question on my inspectors test I took this spring. The locals said that "any location a person receives medical treatment or diagnostic testing takes place is considered a patient care area".

So.......this would include chiropractic,and acupuncture :-? How ablout homeopathic care?

 

[jsinclair]

Chiropractic offices yes. We just got done completing one.

I am not sure that acupuncture and homeopathic medicine are recognized as "medical treatment or diagnostic". But I am not sure. I'll ask the local AHJ when I see him next. It is however an interesting subject that should be better defined.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I know what it says, that's why I posted. It does give specific items, medical, dental, psychiatric, nursing, obsterical, or surgical care. No where in there does it say, etc or similar areas.

In my opinion, eye exams do not fall under any of those headings.

Now if they did laser surgery, I would have a whole different opinion.

John, take a look back at my response to your post and read it. The wording is directly from the NEC, not from me.

 

[cowboyjwc]

but are not limited to

John, take a look back at my response to your post and read it. The wording is directly from the NEC, not from me.

Sorry if I came off kind of harsh wasn't my intention, now that I've reread my post.:smile:

"Not limited to" is the type of facility or building not the type of procedure.

The question has become, is the area, where eye exams are performed, considered a patient care area. A "patient care area" by definition of the NEC is any portion of a "health care facility". I'm saying that an optometrist's office is not a health care facility by definition.

 

[ericsherman37]

How about a new definition: the facilities of providers of medical services that are covered by your health insurance shall be wired according to Article 517.

My insurance includes eye exams, and even some stuff like acupuncture (my wife is into that).

So there

 

[cowboyjwc]

What's funny is the last two medical suites I've inspected were wired wrong and the guys really complained more about the cost of the HGMC than having to redo it, and now this one everyone wants to wire that way when it probably doesn't really need to be.:smile:

 

[iwire]

I went to my local supermarket last night and as soon as walked in I saw a guy using a self serve blood pressure testing machine ............ Thinking of this thread and being sure it was not wired per 517 I immediately tackled the old guy to the ground, his broken hip was a small price to pay for me to save his life. :wink:

 

[steve66]

I went to my local supermarket last night and as soon as walked in I saw a guy using a self serve blood pressure testing machine ............ Thinking of this thread and being sure it was not wired per 517 I immediately tackled the old guy to the ground, his broken hip was a small price to pay for me to save his life. :wink:

So that was you....owwww. Do you mind if I don't say thanks....owww.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

What's funny is the last two medical suites I've inspected were wired wrong and the guys really complained more about the cost of the HGMC than having to redo it, and now this one everyone wants to wire that way when it probably doesn't really need to be.:smile:

That really bothers me. We just accept that we have to follow these "made up" requirements based on inpectors/electricians that don't understand the code.

I went to my local supermarket last night and as soon as walked in I saw a guy using a self serve blood pressure testing machine ............ Thinking of this thread and being sure it was not wired per 517 I immediately tackled the old guy to the ground, his broken hip was a small price to pay for me to save his life. :wink:

That is funny. I really am surprised there are inspectors/electricians out there that think that the self serve BP cuff is a Patient Care Area in a
Health Care Facility...unreal....

 

[steve66]

That is funny. I really am surprised there are inspectors/electricians out there that think that the self serve BP cuff is a Patient Care Area in a
Health Care Facility...unreal....

I still lean toward the eye care being medical, but the blood pressure cuff is crazy.

If that is health care, so is the scale in the John that also tells your fortune.

Steve

 

[cowboyjwc]

That really bothers me. We just accept that we have to follow these "made up" requirements based on inpectors/electricians that don't understand the code.
.

Which part bothers you, the fact that the contractors didn't know that it needed to be wired per 517 or the fact that I don't think the eye exam needs to be.:smile:

The reason I was told by both contractors that they didn't wire it that way, is because it wasn't on the plans.:roll:

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Which part bothers you, the fact that the contractors didn't know that it needed to be wired per 517 or the fact that I don't think the eye exam needs to be.:smile:

The reason I was told by both contractors that they didn't wire it that way, is because it wasn't on the plans.:roll:

the statement "and now this one everyone wants to wire that way when it probably doesn't really need to be.:smile:". bothers a little that certain portions of the nec are being applied that really don't need to be.

I guess the simple fact that people would rather just be told something and accept it without researching it. seems lazy...kudos to everyone on this forum trying to better educate themselves!

 

[jeremysterling]

Last year, I wired a retail eyeglasses outlet with its adjacent sub-let optometrist space. 517 areas were not indicated on the plans and the AHJ (who stuck it to me on other issues) did not require HGMC.

However,

I have read the debate in this thread and others. I have read the NEC. If I was the AHJ, I would rule that these eye exam rooms are patient care areas.

 

[SAC]

I'm not sure that this really matters as far as the question is concerned, and I'm certainly not knowledgeable enough to answer this question, but does someone here understand "why" patient care areas require special treatment in the NEC? Given the understanding of the "why", does it make sense that an eye exam room would also require the same special treatment? I could think up fictional examples of "why" that could go either way...

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I am not sure if everyone is reading the same section and definitions.

It seems quite clear to me that certain optomotrist exams would fall under the guide of a General Care Area. The giveaway to me is the term used in the definition of Patient Care Area;1.General Care Area: ophthalmoscopes.

 

[SAC]

I am not sure if everyone is reading the same section and definitions.

It seems quite clear to me that certain optomotrist exams would fall under the guide of a General Care Area. The giveaway to me is the term used in the definition of Patient Care Area;1.General Care Area: ophthalmoscopes.

Not disagreeing with your assessment, but I'm not finding that term in 517.2 of 2008?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Not disagreeing with your assessment, but I'm not finding that term in 517.2 of 2008?

You have forced me to stand up out of my chair, reach over my screen and pull out the 2008 NEC...such work just to respond to your post.:grin:

I cleaned up my office yesterday, after months of moving stuff just an arms length away...how easy it is now to find stuff.



I see you are correct. It seems to have been removed from the '08 version. I see the brackets there, but I am not familar with the reason for the brackets.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I very much so consider my eye site care medical. I am now scared to get an exam before checking wiring . Seriously if nec did not have it in intent then they should. Your at just as much risk as if a doctor or dentist uses machines on you. The licensing has nothing to do with the risk.