Paint Removal by Electricity?

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derek22r

Member
A buddy of mine just bought a brand new aluminum boat with camoflouge paint job. He was running it for the first time (in salt water) and when he pulled it out of the water all of the paint below the water line was gone. And I mean the boat was down to the shiny aluminum. I do not have the exact details, but the manufacturer told told him that a wire had come lose and was somehow touching the boat. Thus causing the part of the boat in contact with the water to lose the paint.

Can anyone explain to me what actually was happening electrically to make the paint come off. I have never heard of anything like this happening.
 

Rick Christopherson

Senior Member
Sounds like the manufacturer is lying to cover themselves for a bad paint job. Where did this magical wire come from that could touch a boat out on the water? If it came from inside the boat, then who put the other wire into the water, as necessary for any type of reaction at the waterline. You can't just connect one terminal of a battery and have anything happen.
 

derek22r

Member
They said the wire that came loose was part of the electrical system for the motor. I was imagining the worst case which would be the + wire directly off of the battery.
 

Cold Fusion

Senior Member
Location
way north
They said the wire that came loose was part of the electrical system for the motor. I was imagining the worst case which would be the + wire directly off of the battery.
Okay - and what happens if the fat + wire comes off the starter (other end still connected to the battery) and drops to the boat hull?

The engine will have bonding straps from the block to the hull. The batt negative sould be connected to engine block.

The battery electricity is not trying to return to earth (the water), it is trying to return to the source (battery negative)

So how does this make the paint drop off? As RickC said, there are no magic wires.

What happens is the wire burns until the connection is free - or the bonding straps burn clear. This makes the paint fall off where the arc burned a hole in the hull - no where else.

Edit - Is the boat parked in a marina slip, or in and out on a trailer. It will have to be parked in a marina for electrolysis to be a problem

cf
 
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Rick Christopherson

Senior Member
most paints are applied using a static charge. I would venture a guess at electrolysis.
That applies only during the actual application of the paint before the paint particles hit the surface, and is to reduce the amount of over spray. It is not part of the bonding process for the paint.

By the way, because this was a camouflage design, the paint was most likely applied through water immersion, where the pattern is placed on the surface of the water and the object lowered through the pattern.
 

nakulak

Senior Member
Aluminum hulls require proper preparation prior to painting, and also require the correct paint to be applied (the wrong paint, such as copper or lead based paint, will initiate an electrolytic corrosive process once the boat is immersed in saltwater)

If a strong electrolytic cell was formed due to faulty wiring, and the cell formed through the hull to say, the prop or prop nut, and if there were multiple scratches on the hull, or significant cracking in the paint, and if the cell continued to function while the boat was sitting in calm water for a significant period of time, then it is possible that besides metal loss due to the cell, that strong concentrations of sodium hydroxide would have been formed around the conductive path on the hull, possibly contributing to the deterioration of the paint. However, common sense would seem to lead to paint theory more so than the latter, as a strong cell seemingly would be more likely to drill a hole in the hull rather that eat the paint off. Before you pass judgement on the manufacturer's instructions, though, it might be a good idea to do a little more research on this and give them the benefit of the doubt. I have read of shiny hulls before, just can't remember where, but I think that was from a cell generated from shore power, not just onboard (presumably 12v) power.

An excellent book to read on boat corrosion is "the boatowners guide to corrosion" by Everett Collier
 

LJSMITH1

Senior Member
Location
Stratford, CT
If the entire hull is bare and down to the aluminum, it sounds like the problem is in preparation prior to painting. In my opinion (having worked on various boats for more than 20 years), electrolysis would not cause sheets of paint to just fall off into the water. Most (if not all) electrolysis I have seen below the waterline occurs in a coating damaged area and over a period of time. To lose all the paint below the waterline in the first run points to a paint adhesion problem. The action of the water hitting and flexing the aluminum skin was enough to break what limited bond there was.

Keeping paint on aluminum is extremely difficult, and requires very careful and proper preparation. For example, all those boats with painted, but corroding, window and door frames are the result of just shooting the raw aluminum without proper preparation procedures. Many cheap versions are coated without even the proper primers and etching materials that are indispensable to making the paint stay on.

In this case, it may be that the etching step was overlooked or incorrectly done. When that happens, the paint is applied over a very thin oxide layer, and has a fraction of the bond than if the surface was properly degreased and etched prior to priming.

Bottom line, I think your buddy has a legit warranty claim against the manufacturer.
 

nakulak

Senior Member
nakulak. I wonder how bad the anode on the motor or lower unit is decaying? Are you on the water in Annapolis?


Charlie

5 miles south of annapolis, waters at bottom of the street

I tend to agree with the paint prep theory , and one would think that the anode in this case would have completely deteriorated, but without knowing all the particulars, strange things can happen with electricity and metal boats.
 

sgunsel

Senior Member
Bum paint job. Probably poor prep or a bad batch of paint. I bet the rest of the paint will come off without much effort. I spent several years in the painting industry, mostly electrostatic, and can assure you that the application mehod can have a big influence on appearance and cost, but little to do with durability of the finish. Good paint + good prep = good job. Skimp on either and you have a poor paint job. Almost all auto priming is by electrodeposition, essentially plating, but it usually hangs on pretty tight.
 
A buddy of mine just bought a brand new aluminum boat with camoflouge paint job. He was running it for the first time (in salt water) and when he pulled it out of the water all of the paint below the water line was gone. And I mean the boat was down to the shiny aluminum. I do not have the exact details, but the manufacturer told told him that a wire had come lose and was somehow touching the boat. Thus causing the part of the boat in contact with the water to lose the paint.

Can anyone explain to me what actually was happening electrically to make the paint come off. I have never heard of anything like this happening.

The Deck Gang on my ship has kindly requested that this thread be scuttled forever.

If there was a way to remove paint this way, the lads would all be soon replaced by a series of pushbuttons...

FWIW, I agree with the incorrect surface prep fellows. aluminum and galvanized need etching before priming, (and with the proper prime), before final coat(s) are applied.

On steel, you also don't want to shoot paint on it if it's too cold...we dragged the MV Cape Ducato from Sparrow's Point SY in Baltimore to Jax FLA, after BethShip pooched the hold-painting...the stuff was coming off the bulkheads in BIG sheets.
 

mivey

Senior Member
The Deck Gang on my ship has kindly requested that this thread be scuttled forever.

If there was a way to remove paint this way, the lads would all be soon replaced by a series of pushbuttons...

FWIW, I agree with the incorrect surface prep fellows. aluminum and galvanized need etching before priming, (and with the proper prime), before final coat(s) are applied.

On steel, you also don't want to shoot paint on it if it's too cold...we dragged the MV Cape Ducato from Sparrow's Point SY in Baltimore to Jax FLA, after BethShip pooched the hold-painting...the stuff was coming off the bulkheads in BIG sheets.
I have seen the hulls in movies flexing with paint popping off, skin separating from the frames, etc. Is that true or just Hollywood? How long does the paint last on the big boats?

May not be quite push-button, but I saw a leech-looking thing vacuum-attached to a cruise ship on Dirty-Jobs that used a water-blast procedure to remove the old paint from the large, even surfaces.

What about the electrolysis thing? Will the paint (properly bonded) keep the surface underneath from being attacked?
 
I have seen the hulls in movies flexing with paint popping off, skin separating from the frames, etc. Is that true or just Hollywood? How long does the paint last on the big boats?

May not be quite push-button, but I saw a leech-looking thing vacuum-attached to a cruise ship on Dirty-Jobs that used a water-blast procedure to remove the old paint from the large, even surfaces.

What about the electrolysis thing? Will the paint (properly bonded) keep the surface underneath from being attacked?

Mivey:

How long the paint lasts depends on the service the ship is in. A "harbor queen" that sits on her own coffee grounds might go five years, a containership that makes a habit of docking in Northern Europe, where 10 and 12 foot tides mean you'll be scraping the dock...a lot, or scooting in and out of Asian ports, (with Asian tugboat captains), is going to need a "shave and a haircut" more frequently. Modern two-part epoxy paints have been a godsend over the red lead and oil-based enamel days...

And yes, the flexing and skin separation is NOT Hollywood...it's what happens over the course of a few years worth of painting over, rather than removing, rust. A ship I once rode, the SS Green Island, (LASH Barge Carrier),caught a rogue wave in mid-Atlantic, and more than 60' of hull plating fell away and into the sea. Green Island took an immediate 15'-20' list, but the Chief Engineer, (I'd sailed for him when he was First), managed to counter-flood her to 5', and they were able to make Bermuda for repairs.
Charlie got awarded "Mariner of the Year" for that feat, while the Coast Guard covered the behind of the corrupt and lazy ABS inspector in Singapore who had "gundecked" his inspection regime by creating the novel and heretofore unheard-of phenomenom of "super rust"...that supposedly turned a perfectly hale and hearty mild steel plate into crap within a two-year span.

What you probably saw on "Dirty Jobs" was ultra-high pressure water blasting...pump the stream to about 40k psi, and all the bad paint goes away very quickly, while the good paint remains. It's frankly better than sandblasting, (since you're not inhaling as much Nasty Things).

Yes...properly bonded paint is a good insulator, the problem though, (and why I and the USCG get bent about using the hull as a conductor), is that where you have two dissimilar metals touching, say along the weld seams,(since there's always impurities and slag from the stick), you'll have electrolysis...immerse this in salt water, and you'll have accelerated electrolysis. Now pass a current through the whole shebang, and you might as well turn your rudder bearing or your shaft gland into a sacrificial anode...and we have anodes already installed on the hull to keep that from happening.
 
Location
S Florida
I had a 18' john boat, painted myself and it looked great until I took it out, loaded on the trailer the paint was gone. Took it to an professional, the paint was on it till the day I sold it. It was definitely not prep correctly.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Can ducks actually see the part of the boat that has the paint missing if it's below the waterline. OK just had to ask. ;)
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Can ducks actually see the part of the boat that has the paint missing if it's below the waterline. OK just had to ask. ;)
And I just have to ask; where the heckfire did that come from? :-?

Is that related to the ducks'-quacks-don't-echo urban legend?
 

rt66electric

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
side-note How to stop rivit leaks???

side-note How to stop rivit leaks???

I have a perfectly good 22ft aluminum V-hull. A starcraft w/chevy staight-6 Mercrusier inboard. It Hauls ten drunks while pulling a saloam skier, and gets good milage. It has sat in a garage for 12 years (small children and other problems), I finnaly recommisioned the vessel this summer HOORAY!!!. I have noticed that the boat leaks at a concerning rate. Could the seepage be to haveing sat idle so long?? Any suggestions?? What are my options?? I think that the seams or rivit joints have "shrank.
 
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