Iraq electrical systems

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nspectiraq

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Hey guys, i'm obviously new to the forums. My background is industrial commercial electric, and i do hold a valid US Master Licence. I have been tasked to travel to Iraq in the form of an Electrical Inspector to oversee contractors at various locations. My problem is the wire is sized in metric and a few issues with breakers. There seems to be a lot of counterfit wire, and circuit breakers being used. Can anyone in here point me in the right direction for dealing with these and other issues related to the European systems?
 
charlie b

charlie b

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Retired Electrical Engineer
Anwar Pasha said:
Attached herewith is a table showing comparison between AWG and metric guag
Click to expand...
There is one thing you need to know about that table. In the US, we make the wire sizes that are shown in the left colimn (i.e., #14, #12, etc.). However, in countries that use the metric system, they do not make wires that equal the cross sectional areas that the table shows. For example, a #14 equals 4110 square mm. But the "standard size" wire is 4000. You have to ask for a 4000, as you won't be able to find a 4110.

What you really need is a table of standard size metric wires, with a conversion to the nearest size AWG wires. I have one at work, but I am not at work today.
 
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nspectiraq

Member
I would love to see that chart. If you can send it when you get back to work i would greatly appreciate it. Or is there a good site I can download it or print a copy off?

Thanks everyone for your input..
 
Besoeker

Besoeker

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Location
UK
charlie b said:
For example, a #14 equals 4110 square mm. But the "standard size" wire is 4000. You have to ask for a 4000, as you won't be able to find a 4110.
Click to expand...
Well 4110mm^2 or even 4000mm^2 would be a mighty conductor. It's close to 3 inches diameter without allowing for spacing between the strands or for any insulation....

Slightly more seriously, if you took your information from the table kindly cited by Anwar, the 4110 is circular mils. The figure given for metric (SI) is 2.08 mm^2. The nearest standard is 2.5mm^2.
In my experience, we don't often use anything above 300mm^2.
Much installation here (UK) is in steel wire armoured and typically 3 or 4-core for non domestic. Just handling 300mm^2 3-core SWA requires some thinking about from a logistics POV. Weight, bending radius, distance from cable glands to terminals...etc.
On a job we are doing now, it was marginal whether 300mm^2 would be adequate to carry the current for a couple of the motors.
We'll probably use a couple of 120s in parallel.
 
Besoeker

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
nspectiraq said:
Hey guys, i'm obviously new to the forums. My background is industrial commercial electric, and i do hold a valid US Master Licence. I have been tasked to travel to Iraq in the form of an Electrical Inspector to oversee contractors at various locations. My problem is the wire is sized in metric and a few issues with breakers. There seems to be a lot of counterfit wire, and circuit breakers being used. Can anyone in here point me in the right direction for dealing with these and other issues related to the European systems?
Click to expand...
Do you need to inspect to US or European standards?
If European, which European country?
If it's UK, get hold of a copy of BS 7671, 17th edition.
It UK it costs about ?100....around $150 depending on exchange rate.
 
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broadgage

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nspectiraq said:
Oh sorry guys.. it is supposed to be inspected to NEC 2005 US standards...
Click to expand...

If this is a USA owned or managed facility, that was specified to be wired according to the NEC, then inspection to ensure that it does actualy comply, is a simple matter for anyone experienced in such work.

It is however possible that the installation is wired/intended to be wired according to UK IET regulations.
We are currently useing the 17th edition of the regulations, though if the installation is a few years old it may have been intended to comply with the previous 16th edition.

If the installation is wired correctly to UK standards then it should be safe to use, but wont comply with the NEC. Some of the violations that you will find include

230/240 volt lighting in residential

Ring circuits whereby outlets are wired in a ring of 2.5 mm cable, with both ends connected to the same 32 amp breaker. This violates the NEC prohibition on small conductors in parralell.

Branch circuits in 2.5mm cable (similar to #14) on 20 or even 25 amp breakers, considered safe here but a clear violation of the NEC which in general requires #12 for 20 amps

Likewise 4.0mm cable on 32 amp breakers, would be limited to 20 amps in general under the NEC

Lighting circuits wired in 1.0 or 1.5 mm cable, a violation of the NEC which generaly requires nothing smaller than #14. Safe though if on the correct fuse or breaker, 6 or 10 amps.

Regretably though, the installation may be wired in a horrible mixture of UK and USA materials and practices, and not compliant with any codes or standards.
Common hazards include NEMA 5-15 outlets used on 240 volts, USA 120/240 volt panalboards used on 240/415 volts, and single pole breakers used for 220 volt branch circuits derived form a 127/220 volt system.

Colour codes may be a mixture of UK colours, old or new?, probably some of each , and USA colours, and whatever seemed a good idea to the installer/what they had on the donkey.
Three phase, 4 wire circuits are often wired in steel wire armoured cable with the following colour code
Neutral=blue L1=black L2=red L3=yellow
That is not in accordance with either the old or new UK colours but is a local tradition! Probably done by European electricians confronted with cable in old UK colours.

Sometimes the same cable is used with yellow as the neutral, and black, red and blue as phases. Probably done by an American electrician confronted with cable in the old UK colours.
This also does not meet either the old or new standards in the UK, but is similar to USA colours, white tape MIGHT be applied to the yellow.
 
Besoeker

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
broadgage said:
If this is a USA owned or managed facility, that was specified to be wired according to the NEC, then inspection to ensure that it does actualy comply, is a simple matter for anyone experienced in such work.

It is however possible that the installation is wired/intended to be wired according to UK IET regulations.
Click to expand...
See post #9.

broadgage said:
Three phase, 4 wire circuits are often wired in steel wire armoured cable with the following colour code
Neutral=blue L1=black L2=red L3=yellow
That is not in accordance with either the old or new UK colours but is a local tradition!
Click to expand...
Local to where I wonder?
It's not one I'm familiar with and an I'm an old person.
In all the installations I have seen or been associated with, it has been in accordance with table 51A, of the IEE16th (RYB for the phases, blue for N) or in accordance with the new "harmonised" colours which came into use from 31st March, 2004 - an act of monumental folly in my opinion.
 
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nspectiraq

Member
Over all the installations are new with the exception of some renovations of living units and a few other facilities that have been found to be unsafe by a group called Task force Safe. Most of the issues found are grounding and bonding issues but there also seems to be many wire sizing issues and over sizing of breakers. I have to determine weather or not the gounding and bonding are correct, the wire sizes are correct for there perspective loads, and the circuit protection is not over sized. With the possibility of counterfit cables and circuit breakers this task becomes a little more difficult. So more or less the idea is to us overseas materials to US standards. Other than that its a matter of looking for bad craftsmanship.
 
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dbuckley

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Location
Canterbury, New Zealand
In my opinion, using US standards to verify an installation made with European materials is loonacy especially in regards to (a) cable and equipment ampacity and (b) grounding requirements, both of which is exactly what you're inspecting.

Just take simple cable - USA cable is rated in the NEC according to a set of conditions, mostly to do with temperature rise under load. European cables are made to a different set of conditions.

Not to mention that European rules allow several different sorts of grounding systems to be used, only one of which is used generally in the USA.
 
PetrosA

PetrosA

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
dbuckley said:
In my opinion, using US standards to verify an installation made with European materials is loonacy especially in regards to (a) cable and equipment ampacity and (b) grounding requirements, both of which is exactly what you're inspecting.

Just take simple cable - USA cable is rated in the NEC according to a set of conditions, mostly to do with temperature rise under load. European cables are made to a different set of conditions.

Not to mention that European rules allow several different sorts of grounding systems to be used, only one of which is used generally in the USA.
Click to expand...

Hear! Hear!
 
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