12V for Class 2 lighting on Romex?

[tls]

I have seen Class 2 12V lighting circuits (the low-voltage side) run on Romex or even on BX. Is this really permissible? I can't find any language in section 725 which would seem to allow the use of any cable types other than the CL/CM series for Class 2 wiring outside of conduit.

I keep a spool of 12AWG CL3R around for high-wattage speaker wire and other low-voltage, high-amperage applications, since by the table of substitutions in 725.154 it will work for almost all of them. But this does seem a little silly if I could just use 12/2 Romex. I cannot find any language allowing this, so I think it is not permitted -- am I wrong?

 

[kbsparky]

Most "NM" cable is rated for up to 600 Volts. 12 Volts is within that operating range, so I see no problem with using it, provided you follow other guidelines for its proper installation.

 

[hbiss]

I can't find any language in section 725 which would seem to allow the use of any cable types other than the CL/CM series for Class 2 wiring outside of conduit.

Check the hierarchy. A class 1 wiring method trumps everything below it.

-Hal

 

[guitarsarge]

I keep a spool of 12AWG CL3R around for high-wattage speaker wire

I wouldn't use romex for this :grin:

 

[iwire]

I have seen Class 2 12V lighting circuits (the low-voltage side) run on Romex or even on BX. Is this really permissible? I can't find any language in section 725 .......

How about just using 411.4(A)(1)?

Any Chapter 3 wiring method is acceptable and many times required for 12 volt lighting systems.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

How about just using 411.4(A)(1)?

Any Chapter 3 wiring method is acceptable and many times required for 12 volt lighting systems.

This is true but you must terminate in the approved Chapter 3 fashion. No? unless the system is an approved assembly. That's my take on 411

 

[nakulak]

i have seen class 2 12v lighting circuits (the low-voltage side) run on romex or even on bx. Is this really permissible? I can't find any language in section 725 which would seem to allow the use of any cable types other than the cl/cm series for class 2 wiring outside of conduit.

I keep a spool of 12awg cl3r around for high-wattage speaker wire and other low-voltage, high-amperage applications, since by the table of substitutions in 725.154 it will work for almost all of them. But this does seem a little silly if i could just use 12/2 romex. I cannot find any language allowing this, so i think it is not permitted -- am i wrong?

725.52 b (2005) (as bob said - insulation needs to be equal or greater than what's in 725.82, then all is well (any chapter 3 method applies)

 

[iwire]

This is true but you must terminate in the approved Chapter 3 fashion. No?

Of course, but I missing your point.:smile:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Of course, but I missing your point.:smile:

My point is that many EC's will run the nm cable thru the wall and then terminate a puck light without a jb under the cabinet. This is a violation, IMO.

 

[stickboy1375]

My point is that many EC's will run the nm cable thru the wall and then terminate a puck light without a jb under the cabinet. This is a violation, IMO.

Mine too, this is why I hate puck lights and refuse to install them.

 

[iwire]

My point is that many EC's will run the nm cable thru the wall and then terminate a puck light without a jb under the cabinet. This is a violation, IMO.

Now I get you and I do not know if that is a violation or not.

 

[stickboy1375]

Now I get you and I do not know if that is a violation or not.

It would be an open splice, so how can that follow chapter 3?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Now I get you and I do not know if that is a violation or not.

If we must follow the wiring methods of chapter 3 it seems to me it would be a violation without a JB.

 

[LarryFine]

My point is that many EC's will run the nm cable thru the wall and then terminate a puck light without a jb under the cabinet. This is a violation, IMO.

I use shallow Wiremold boxes with blank plates as J-boxes this purpose.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I use shallow Wiremold boxes with blank plates as J-boxes this purpose.

Odd that the code allows the wire from the puck to be run exposed but the nm cable cannot be spliced to it without a JB. It makes no sense esp. since you can have splices if the cables are exposed from light to light.

 

[nakulak]

725.52 B says that conductors used for class 2 or 3 must have the insulation rating equal or greater than that required by 725.82. It does not say you have to use an article 300 wiring method per se. In mshio, you can run the nm to the puck. I have, and I will continue to do so until some bonehead inspector acts like a wingnut about it.

 

[stickboy1375]

725.52 B says that conductors used for class 2 or 3 must have the insulation rating equal or greater than that required by 725.82. It does not say you have to use an article 300 wiring method per se. In mshio, you can run the nm to the puck. I have, and I will continue to do so until some bonehead inspector acts like a wingnut about it.

.
No, but article 411 does.

 

[nakulak]

.
No, but article 411 does.

where does article 725 refernce article 411 ?

 

[stickboy1375]

where does article 725 refernce article 411 ?

So we just skip 411?

 

[nakulak]

So we just skip 411?

read 725.3