12V for Class 2 lighting on Romex?

[Dennis Alwon]

read 725.3

Article 725 is a general article for Class 1, 2 & 3 Remote-Control, Signaling, & Power Limited Circuits

Art. 411 is specific to low voltage lighting. I don't see where 725 comes into play with lighting systems that is 30 volts or less.

 

[nakulak]

Article 725 is a general article for Class 1, 2 & 3 Remote-Control, Signaling, & Power Limited Circuits

Art. 411 is specific to low voltage lighting. I don't see where 725 comes into play with lighting systems that is 30 volts or less.

oops . because 411.4 A 2 specifically says it can be installed if it complies with 725.52 ? and 725.52 B says that the insulation on the wires just needs to exceed 725.82 ?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

oops . because 411.4 A 2 specifically says it can be installed if it complies with 725.52 ? and 725.52 B says that the insulation on the wires just needs to exceed 725.82 ?

Yes, but I thought we were talking about using wiring methods of chapter 3. If you use a listed class 2 cable with a class 2 trany then you use art. 725. I was not speaking of that. I was speaking of using chapter 3 wiring thru the walls and I believe where it exits the walls it must follow the rules of chapter 3 also.

411.5 (D) Insulated Conductors. Exposed insulated secondary circuit conductors shall be of the type, and installed as, described in (1), (2), or (3):
(1) Class 2 cable supplied by a Class 2 power source and installed in accordance with Parts I and III of Article 725.
(2) Conductors, cord, or cable of the listed system and installed not less than 2.1 m (7 ft) above the finished floor unless the system is specifically listed for a lower installation height.
(3) Wiring methods described in Chapter 3[/QUOTE]

 

[mtnelectrical]

there you go, it says that it shall be installed as in 1,2 OR 3 not all of them a the same time.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

there you go, it says that it shall be installed as in 1,2 OR 3 not all of them a the same time.

I know that but we were specifically talking about chapter 3 methods when this discussion arouse.

 

[mtnelectrical]

sorry, I see it now

 

[hbiss]

This is kind of a gray area for the NEC and the real answer is "you do the best you can".

There is lots of LV lighting out there that requires Class 1 wiring by the NEC yet the lighting manufacturers make no provision for it. Your only choice then is to use Romex or even AC or MC for building wiring. How you terminate it and splice it into the lighting needs to be made as chapter 3 compliant as possible, that's all you can do. The suggestion to use shallow boxes is a good one, assuming they allow the proper connectors (which I don't think that shallow Wiremold will) and are grounded. If you are using something like puck lights that has a zip cord whip the only thing you can do is bring it into the splice box through a knockout and insulating bushing.

This is one place where you have to know your Chapter 3 requirements and use your ingenuity.

-Hal

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This is kind of a gray area for the NEC and the real answer is "you do the best you can".

There is lots of LV lighting out there that requires Class 1 wiring by the NEC yet the lighting manufacturers make no provision for it. Your only choice then is to use Romex or even AC or MC for building wiring. How you terminate it and splice it into the lighting needs to be made as chapter 3 compliant as possible, that's all you can do. The suggestion to use shallow boxes is a good one, assuming they allow the proper connectors (which I don't think that shallow Wiremold will) and are grounded. If you are using something like puck lights that has a zip cord whip the only thing you can do is bring it into the splice box through a knockout and insulating bushing.

This is one place where you have to know your Chapter 3 requirements and use your ingenuity.

-Hal

I get what you are saying here Hal but I don't work that way. By saying make it as compliant as possible and that's all you can do is not a good resolution. I have another choice-- I won't install it if I can't make it compliant. Pucks are out for me unless the wiring is exposed under the cabinet otherwise the client must make another choice.

 

[LarryFine]

The suggestion to use shallow boxes is a good one, assuming they allow the proper connectors (which I don't think that shallow Wiremold will) and are grounded. If you are using something like puck lights that has a zip cord whip the only thing you can do is bring it into the splice box through a knockout and insulating bushing.

That was mine, and the pucks in my case were 120v lights, but the method is basically the same. The NM bonded the box, and I hot-glued the pucks' 18-2 to the cabinet underside.

To bush the Wiremold box KO's, I slit some 1/8" rubber tube from the auto-parts store, and used it as grommeting. The inspector tried, but couldn't come up with a good reason to fail it.

 

[hbiss]

I have another choice-- I won't install it if I can't make it compliant. Pucks are out for me unless the wiring is exposed under the cabinet otherwise the client must make another choice.

I like that answer better than mine. Just say no!

-Hal

 

[mtnelectrical]

Well if it is 120 volts it is another topic , It has to be done under Chapter 3 , forget about 411 or 725