code violations on a solar installation

Status
Not open for further replies.

e57

Senior Member
Remove those breakers and it's back to square 1.
The meter was not tampered with. I'd say the POCO is stepping too far.
I would provide a code complaint repair in writing and see where it goes.
Pay the double permit fee penalty and call it good.

It's always nice to do a upgrade to a panel. Will the HO go for that? The breakers are old and in my opinion new ones are a bit safer.
I think the idea was to go back to square one with the guise that one could make it to square two.... When it really requires one of those "Knight" moves. (Chess)
 

wireguru

Senior Member
How can requireing things that are not in the code be reasonable?
That is outrageous to me. I have a pretty good repour with my building dept. However I would not allow them to require anything that is not on the plans or in the code. I'm sorry. I do my best to do what is right and I expect the same from the building Dept. Who is supposed to pay for those extra things anyhow?

In these cases when the inspector requires something 'not in the code' its not in NEC, but there is a local ordinance requiring it. For example one city in so cal I am aware of; requires a seperate meter, a DC disconnect, and a disconnect on the output of the inverter for grid tie solar installations. (I am not familiar with the codes involved here, perhaps the two discos are always required?) They are also very particular about signage on the discos.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
In these cases when the inspector requires something 'not in the code' its not in NEC, but there is a local ordinance requiring it. For example one city in so cal I am aware of; requires a seperate meter, a DC disconnect, and a disconnect on the output of the inverter for grid tie solar installations. (I am not familiar with the codes involved here, perhaps the two discos are always required?) They are also very particular about signage on the discos.
Thats nice that they may have seperate rules for their city. The problem is it actually must be LAW. They cannot just enact it by whim. They must go through a process. I believe they must submit through the state before they can make such a rule. Many times cities do not. The city just cannot make things up as they go.
All I was suggesting is that the AHJ provide a documentation for the request. Especially if it was not the fault of the HO and just a shoddy EC.
 

newenergy

Member
In general I mean the cities, not just particular inspectors as far as requirements that aren't in the NEC. And, yeah, I see what you were saying about the cities needing to go through a process.

It's a case of picking battles I guess. I have argued, and won, about some significant things like when they want additional grounding rods that shouldn't be required. But, I've let other things go, like when they want direct burial grounding lugs on each module and not some less expensive clips which are also approved and make for a neater install.

The biggest specific impediment that some cities adopt for solar have been fire set backs. Some cities are much more strict than others. I guess this is a planning issue though and not the building department's.
 

newenergy

Member
In these cases when the inspector requires something 'not in the code' its not in NEC, but there is a local ordinance requiring it. For example one city in so cal I am aware of; requires a seperate meter, a DC disconnect, and a disconnect on the output of the inverter for grid tie solar installations. (I am not familiar with the codes involved here, perhaps the two discos are always required?) They are also very particular about signage on the discos.

The separate meter and a separate AC disconnect, usually lockable, is a requirement of many of the municipal power companies in SoCal. The DC disconnect is required, but is often integrated with the inverter. Depending on where the inverter is, where the conduit runs and where the array is, there could be a separate DC disconnect required by the NEC.
 

e57

Senior Member
Thats nice that they may have seperate rules for their city. The problem is it actually must be LAW. They cannot just enact it by whim. They must go through a process. I believe they must submit through the state before they can make such a rule. Many times cities do not. The city just cannot make things up as they go.
All I was suggesting is that the AHJ provide a documentation for the request. Especially if it was not the fault of the HO and just a shoddy EC.
I'm in one of thos cities that rewrites the book.... They have been sued a number of times and won.... Nearest I can tell - the BSA can care less - and all cities need do is have the AHJ for them post or make any changes to the codes available. And most make them available on line or use legal posting services. Interpetiaon is another story all together. ;) The POCO's can and of course write thier own book, based on loose state guidelines, but are free to change them at will. As far as the topic on hand - I know there has been a push for standardization on this for net metering - but the last two times I have looked for PG&E's there have been changes to it. Like most things 'solar' - it may take decades to self-standardize - if ever.
 

mlnk

Senior Member
What is the Code violation? I can not tell from the pictures. Why do they need a new panel? I think you can add a 20/20 for solar to a 100 amp panel. I suggest that you do not call CSLB until you are 100 % sure about what is done wrong. It may be YOU who will be cited.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
What is the Code violation? I can not tell from the pictures. Why do they need a new panel? I think you can add a 20/20 for solar to a 100 amp panel. I suggest that you do not call CSLB until you are 100 % sure about what is done wrong. It may be YOU who will be cited.
The person modified the Load center in the meter combo. The breakers are only accesable if you remove the deadfront. If we had better pictures I guess there would be more.
As far as the AHJ making rules. They just need to follow the process. They can't just make it up along the way. Same goes for the POCO. They need to provide such rules they make and it must be in writing.They also must post it with some state agency also.
 

mlnk

Senior Member
I do not think the customer needs a new service. It looks to me like there is room to properly add two 20 amp or two 15 amp breakers in the existing service after an electrician cleans things up a bit. Running new conduit and wire is expensive and may be unnecessary. What are the other items that you think are Code violations? Why not give the first company a chance to fix it? I suggest you check things out carefully before calling CSLB. You may get cited!
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
the sad fact is, this is going to become very common. There are solar companies springing up left and right here in so cal, and I am willing to bet a good portion of them do work like this. Homeowners are generally idiots and will believe whatever the solar salesman tells them since he is in a white shirt with his companies name on it. 'you dont need a permit since we're just hooking it to the existing panel' I really hope the local building departments nip this in the bud before it becomes an epedemic. Illegal solar install should = meter pulled until removed. The power companies need to be sending an insert with the utility bills to educate homeowners.

There's not really that many illegal solar installs, since they can't get their rebates without a signed job card.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top