installation without permit!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Power Tech said:
So your telling me if a customer doesn't want to get permits "I starve to death".
I don't think so.
I would never turn my boss in. Is this NAZI Germany or America.
Click to expand...

I never said starve to death, would I pull a permit to change a fan or light fixture out. No. Replacing the service, adding a sub or other major work. Yes. It's all about CYA. But I would never let the HO decide. It's my call depending on the scope of work.
 
Power Tech said:
I do everything to or above code, that is my job weather it is inspected or not. If they sign a contract stating the owner is responsible for permits. Contractor will pull permits upon request. This is making the customer aware they are responsible. I charge $1000 to pull a permit in LA because I have to buy a business license and it is a pain. I tell the customer to go get it, save themselves $700. My time + License and permit. I have an agreement with a corporation that I will get permits for everything. I also have customers that hate the city. All the work is done to code, and I have a contract. I am a contractor, not a cop. I am contracting. I give the customers everything and more when it comes to the B&P code. If I face the guy in the black robe I will win.
Click to expand...
What if the customer agrees to the responsibility of the permit? Who is responsible if something goes awry? What if they agree, and say they got a permit, but don't really get one? Who's legally responsible?
 
LarryFine said:
What if the customer agrees to the responsibility of the permit? Who is responsible if something goes awry? What if they agree, and say they got a permit, but don't really get one? Who's legally responsible?
Click to expand...

Anyone doing electrical work without a permit usually does not understand the liability or in some cases a jail term they will assume, and all electrical work should be inspected. the excuse it's only one outlet is a poor excuse, that one outlet can as much damage and loss of life as can an entire building of wiring. Learn all you can about the permit process and inspections before you end up with problems that you can't resolve.
 
SPARKS40 said:
Illinois does not have any "licensing" provisions", so to speak, unless you are a plumber, roofer, or general contractor. Persons performing electrical work are normally required to register with the county or municipality where they wish to provide services. In my county, all that is required is a $25 "registration" fee. They do not even require a liability policy unless you plan to temp a service on an upgrade. The owner of your company is not required to obtain a permit just to install or relocate a piece of machinery. This may be different if he was asking you to install distribution equipment.
Click to expand...

The state does not require a license but the majority of municipalities do. I know because I live in a suburb of Chicago. I had to pass an electrical licensing exam and the only city that I know of that does not is Rockford. You must be in a rural area of Illinois. Chicago has their own test and heir own code book as thick as the NEC.
 
I?ll let everyone in IL in on a secrete (since I am no working there).

As said there is no state wide electrical license. A person can get their license from a limited number of municipalities that provide a test. Each municipality that provides a license has their own qualification requirements and version of a test. It is equal to a masters test bet never called that. Every municipality in IL with under a population of (forgot what, maybe 1,000,000) must accept an electrical license from another IL municipality as long as the municipality has an electrical commission and tested for the license. The Rockford one is worthless most other places because they don?t provide a test (it is just a fee for them). Chicago is exempt from accepting a license from anywhere else because of the population rule.

Anyways, IMO if you have a license from City A and are working in City B without a permit there would be little recourse that could be done by City B to your license. The most that could be done would be to ban you from pulling permits in City B or fine you. Technically you?re breaking a law so you could be arrested but never herd of that happening. More often it would fall back on the building owner as they are the one with the stop work order on their door. The EC would be affected secondarily by the project being stop and or not getting paid. I always wondered what type of disaster an EC would have to be responsible for to cause City A to hold a meeting and revoke your license.

If you license is said to be revoked I?ll bet you?ll still have that card. I never used my actual card. I used enlarge copies that I would fax or hand out when permitting. I can?t say how often a building department checked a license with the issuing city.

Even then there is nothing to stop you or illegal about getting a permit from multiple cities.

To sum it up don?t work in your license issuing location and it can?t be revoked.
 
SPARKS40 said:
Illinois does not have any "licensing" provisions", so to speak, unless you are a plumber, roofer, or general contractor. Persons performing electrical work are normally required to register with the county or municipality where they wish to provide services. In my county, all that is required is a $25 "registration" fee. They do not even require a liability policy unless you plan to temp a service on an upgrade. The owner of your company is not required to obtain a permit just to install or relocate a piece of machinery. This may be different if he was asking you to install distribution equipment.
Click to expand...

Insurance, bonds, and registration fee requirements veried but most in my experiance needed a copy of the business insurance with the city listed. About 1/2 want a bond that is for that city only. Many try to get a city registration fee from $25-100. I know you only need to pay once in a year no more than $50. Trouble is most cities act like they never herd that.
 
I've never heard of anyone getting a permit to connect a machine in an existing business in Illinois. If you want you could be the first.
 
Are permits required? The AHJ here does not require permits for a machine to be installed. I have probably had less then 10% of my projects require a permit and/or an inspection.
 
LarryFine said:
What if the customer agrees to the responsibility of the permit? Who is responsible if something goes awry? What if they agree, and say they got a permit, but don't really get one? Who's legally responsible?
Click to expand...

Power Tech said:
The customer.
Click to expand...



The Customer? I don't think so. The contractor is always responsible for work performed under contract. If they get a permit and inspection or if they get no permit or inspection. Even with a permit and inspection the the local authorities assume no responsibility for the work performed.

What you get with a permit and inspection is knowing that you are working within the law and that there is another qualified person ( the inspector) that certifies all visible work is code compliant at the time of inspection.

If something does go awry the passed inspection would go a long way toward helping to verify that it was a code compliant installation. In court having an expert unbiased third party is about as good as you can hope for. You are never really free of responsibility, that's for the court to decide.
 
active1 said:
I?ll let everyone in IL in on a secrete (since I am no working there).

As said there is no state wide electrical license. A person can get their license from a limited number of municipalities that provide a test. Each municipality that provides a license has their own qualification requirements and version of a test. It is equal to a masters test bet never called that. Every municipality in IL with under a population of (forgot what, maybe 1,000,000) must accept an electrical license from another IL municipality as long as the municipality has an electrical commission and tested for the license. The Rockford one is worthless most other places because they don?t provide a test (it is just a fee for them). Chicago is exempt from accepting a license from anywhere else because of the population rule.

Anyways, IMO if you have a license from City A and are working in City B without a permit there would be little recourse that could be done by City B to your license. The most that could be done would be to ban you from pulling permits in City B or fine you. Technically you?re breaking a law so you could be arrested but never herd of that happening. More often it would fall back on the building owner as they are the one with the stop work order on their door. The EC would be affected secondarily by the project being stop and or not getting paid. I always wondered what type of disaster an EC would have to be responsible for to cause City A to hold a meeting and revoke your license.

If you license is said to be revoked I?ll bet you?ll still have that card. I never used my actual card. I used enlarge copies that I would fax or hand out when permitting. I can?t say how often a building department checked a license with the issuing city.

Even then there is nothing to stop you or illegal about getting a permit from multiple cities.

To sum it up don?t work in your license issuing location and it can?t be revoked.
Click to expand...

What's the secret you are referring to? I don't understand that statement but thanks for your reply.
You are right there is no state wide license.
It's actually a municipality of 500,000 or under.
If I were banned (or arrested) from the township where I do most of my work (City B) would be devastating. I have ECL in City A which city B accepts + supplement. City B does not offer an examination but accepts City A license. Thanks for your help.

P.S. Do you mean the building owner or the business owner? The building is leased.
 
growler said:
The Customer? I don't think so. The contractor is always responsible for work performed under contract. If they get a permit and inspection or if they get no permit or inspection. Even with a permit and inspection the the local authorities assume no responsibility for the work performed.

What you get with a permit and inspection is knowing that you are working within the law and that there is another qualified person ( the inspector) that certifies all visible work is code compliant at the time of inspection.

If something does go awry the passed inspection would go a long way toward helping to verify that it was a code compliant installation. In court having an expert unbiased third party is about as good as you can hope for. You are never really free of responsibility, that's for the court to decide.
Click to expand...



Good reply!
 
growler said:
The Customer? I don't think so. The contractor is always responsible for work performed under contract. If they get a permit and inspection or if they get no permit or inspection. Even with a permit and inspection the the local authorities assume no responsibility for the work performed.

What you get with a permit and inspection is knowing that you are working within the law and that there is another qualified person ( the inspector) that certifies all visible work is code compliant at the time of inspection.

If something does go awry the passed inspection would go a long way toward helping to verify that it was a code compliant installation. In court having an expert unbiased third party is about as good as you can hope for. You are never really free of responsibility, that's for the court to decide.
Click to expand...

If you have ADT fire and security in you home, are they responsible for a fire, or burglary? NO. They did not send the burglar or start the fire.

My job is to install everything to code and use only UL approved parts. The permit is the customers responsibility. Every installation I do is on film. In court a picture is better than any persons opinion.

If a job passes inspection and the house burns down because of a loose connection or nicked wire the inspector didn't see. Who is responsible then? The contractor? The inspector? The agency that issued the permit.

Just because you get a permit and get it inspected dose not mean you are free of responsibility. So the work, not the permit is the contractors responsibility. So don't get all warm and fuzzy just because you get a permit.

In order to do change a panel or do new construction you need a permit. I have no problem pulling a permit. I do it whenever I can. I will not refuse work over a permit though.
 
For the record, I talked to code enforcement and they do in fact require a permit even if it is only one piece of machinery or equipment.
 
2wired said:
What's the secret you are referring to? I don't understand that statement but thanks for your reply.
You are right there is no state wide license.
It's actually a municipality of 500,000 or under.
If I were banned (or arrested) from the township where I do most of my work (City B) would be devastating. I have ECL in City A which city B accepts + supplement. City B does not offer an examination but accepts City A license. Thanks for your help.

P.S. Do you mean the building owner or the business owner? The building is leased.
Click to expand...

I know someone who was fined, and had a madatory court apearance because he did not get a permit.
 
After reading this post again I missed the fact that your are emploied buy this company. I would not worry about your liciance. Do they even have a copy of your card? If not then just tell them they are incorrect and the job does require a permit and inspection. But as a faithfull employee you are willing to do your job either way. And if there is ever a problem the responcibility is on the employier / tennent. So just keep your mouth shut about being licensed and no one can give you any trouble.

As a side note you could refuse to do the work without a permit because it would be unlawfull. They shouldn't discharge you for that, if they do you get unemployment and could sue them. The reality could be your boss would find another reason. It's a bad time to be looking for work.
 
Power Tech said:
I do everything to or above code, that is my job weather it is inspected or not. If they sign a contract stating the owner is responsible for permits. Contractor will pull permits upon request. This is making the customer aware they are responsible. I charge $1000 to pull a permit in LA because I have to buy a business license and it is a pain. I tell the customer to go get it, save themselves $700. My time + License and permit. I have an agreement with a corporation that I will get permits for everything. I also have customers that hate the city. All the work is done to code, and I have a contract. I am a contractor, not a cop. I am contracting. I give the customers everything and more when it comes to the B&P code. If I face the guy in the black robe I will win.
Click to expand...
Power tech. Are you in Licensed in California. Did you know that the CSLB can take action against you for working on a job without a permit? All it takes is one complaint by a customer you did not pull the permit. and YOu be in big trouble.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top