Can't use Romex in residence to feed hot tub

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djsr123@aol.com

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Have always enjoyed the info. Now I have a question.
My inspector wants me to replace the # 6 romex I ran inside the residence to MC cable. Her argument is the self contained hot tub has dry-niche light fixture. My argument is it is not fed with a separate branch ckt. It is a LV Led off the control board ran with Lv wire.
Also in 680.42(C) I read that as Romex is acceptable. What do you think?
I already searched the forum and failed to find this subject.
 
Your install is acceptable. Its a residence and the NM is inside the building. If or when it goes outside you have to transition to an acceptable method.

The hot tub is a Ul listed assembly. So you only concern yourself up to the power point of the tub. I assume the light is manufactured and installed as part of the tub.
 
It's simply another opinion,but I think you are correct.,,assuming the LED is 15 v or less. 680.42(C) allows Chapt 3 wiring with a grounding conductor within an outer sheath, and a LED operating at 15 volts or less would require only 680.33 compliance.
 
another Inspector Engineer here. Nothing wrong with NM as long as it does not go outside the building
 
The disconnect is a 50 amp breaker located in the Main Panel 40 feet from the point where the romex converts to a short piece of carflec which goes to the GFI disconnect which is mounted on the outside of the building which is 5 feet from the hot tub.
 
My inspector is very good and she is very through. I respect her and enjoy talking code issues with her. She is adamant she is right and also claims she has brought this subject up at conferences she attended and also spoke to the NFPA guys and they all side with her.
How can I help her see it my way?
 
mikeames said:
Your install is acceptable. Its a residence and the NM is inside the building. If or when it goes outside you have to transition to an acceptable method.

The hot tub is a Ul listed assembly. So you only concern yourself up to the power point of the tub. I assume the light is manufactured and installed as part of the tub.
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I agree with Mike.
 
djsr123@aol.com said:
The disconnect is a 50 amp breaker located in the Main Panel 40 feet from the point where the romex converts to a short piece of carflec which goes to the GFI disconnect which is mounted on the outside of the building which is 5 feet from the hot tub.
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Are you sleeving the NM in the carflex to take it outdoors? If you are that is your inspectors beef with the installation 334.12 (B)
 
djsr123@aol.com said:
Also in 680.42(C) I read that as Romex is acceptable. What do you think?
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That you're absolutely correct, and if the inspector refuses to see it, go over her head. Everyone has a supervisor for a reason. Be polite, but be resolute.

Unless that's a legally-adopted local requirement, she's flat wrong. It's just as illegal to improperly fail something as it is to pass something non-compliant.

Added: Oh, by the way, welcome to the forum, Junior! :)
 
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Johnmcca said:
Are you sleeving the NM in the carflex to take it outdoors? If you are that is your inspectors beef with the installation 334.12 (B)
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OK . That is a issue but how does MC cable solve the problem.
Is this because you strip back the sheath of the MC and connect to the Carflex. And somehow the conductors inside the MC are wet location rated but the conuctors in the NM are not!?

OOOK.
 
Johnmcca said:
Are you sleeving the NM in the carflex to take it outdoors? If you are that is your inspectors beef with the installation 334.12 (B)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the question? I made the transition to carflex via a j-box in the basement. Romex to the j-box and THHN in the carflex. Good questoin!
 
I'll bet she is going to cite 680.21 which refers to an insulated EGC. Ask her about 680.42(C) and I'll bet she'll capitulate.
 
This is an indoor installation, so wouldn't 680.43 be more appropriate? There is no mention of an insulated ground in that section. See 680.21 (4) for single family exception
 
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Maybe I found her reason for the MC, doesn't mention carflex as an approved method.

680.21 Motors.
(A) (1) General. The branch circuits for pool-associated motors shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit, reinforced thermosetting resin conduit, or Type MC cable listed for the location.
 
I did ask her for the code referece and this is what she e-mailed back.


First you have to read article 680.42 (Spas and Hot tubs-Outdoor installations):
680.42 Outdoor Installations.
A spa or hot tub installed outdoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this article, except as permitted in 680.42(A) and (B), that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.
Read through Part II of 680 until you find 680.23 which states that it applies to all under water luminaires
Review the definition of dry niche luminaires; this is the type found in hot tubs
Read 680.23(F) which describes the branch circuit wiring methods for feeding underwater luminaires:
680.23 (F) Branch-Circuit Wiring.
(1) Wiring Methods. Branch-circuit wiring on the supply side of enclosures and junction boxes connected to conduits run to wet-niche and no-niche luminaires, and the field wiring compartments of dry-niche luminaires, shall be installed using rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit, or reinforced thermosetting resin conduit. Where installed on buildings, electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted, and where installed within buildings, electrical nonmetallic tubing, Type MC cable, electrical metallic tubing, or Type AC cable shall be permitted. In all cases, an insulated equipment grounding conductor sized in accordance with Table 250.122 but not less than 12 AWG shall be required.
Exception: Where connecting to transformers for pool lights, liquidtight flexible metal conduit or liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit shall be permitted. The length shall not exceed 1.8 m (6 ft) for any one length or exceed 3.0 m (10 ft) in total length used. Liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit, Type B (LFNC-B), shall be permitted in lengths longer than 1.8 m (6 ft).
(2) Equipment Grounding. Through-wall lighting assemblies, wet-niche, dry-niche, or no-niche luminaires shall be connected to an insulated copper equipment grounding conductor installed with the circuit conductors. The equipment grounding conductor shall be installed without joint or splice except as permitted in (F)(2)(a) and (F)(2)(b). The equipment grounding conductor shall be sized in accordance with Table 250.122 but shall not be smaller than 12 AWG.

I have underlined the reference to "field wiring compartments" in the paragraph above, because this refutes the point you were trying to make about a direct branch circuit feed to a pool light. With hot tubs the feed is going to a field wiring compartment (the hot tub control box).
Also note above the requirement that the equipment grounding conductor for underwater luminaires is required to have an insulated equipment grounding conductor. By using NM cable, the EGC is bare copper and does not meet this requirement.
Also read 680.42(C) Interior wiring to Outdoor installations (see last sentance in this section)
(C) Interior Wiring to Outdoor Installations. In the interior of a one-family dwelling or in the interior of another building or structure associated with a one-family dwelling, any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that contain a copper equipment grounding conductor that is insulated or enclosed within the outer sheath of the wiring method and not smaller than 12 AWG shall be permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control loads that are part of a self-contained spa or hot tub or a packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly. Wiring to an underwater luminaire shall comply with 680.23 or 680.33.
 
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