Can't use Romex in residence to feed hot tub

[Johnmcca]

Its stuff like this that makes me glad I don't do pools.:grin:

 

[infinity]

Still sounds like a crock to me.

 

[boboelectric]

Hot tubs,like pools,require an insulated ground.Conduit is required out side the interior of the building.

 

[Sierrasparky]

So given the code section How does the transition to the carflex or liguid tight with a insulated Ground still pose a issue.
Install a mini sub panel and use an aproved method from there to the spa tub. Whats the issue.
From the main to the spa panel is a feeder not a branch circuit especially if you use the type with a GFCI recept attached.

 

[djsr123@aol.com]

So given the code section How does the transition to the carflex or liguid tight with a insulated Ground still pose a issue.
Install a mini sub panel and use an aproved method from there to the spa tub. Whats the issue.
From the main to the spa panel is a feeder not a branch circuit especially if you use the type with a GFCI recept attached.

Good point. So if that is the case I would think the 2 space panel I mounted out side next to the hot tub which contains the 2 pole GFI breaker could actually be considered as a hot tub sub panel.
We might also be getting off the actual subject. The original problem is that Romex can,t be used in a residence to feed the hot tub because the Hot Tub unit has a factory light. At least that is the argument from my inspector.

 

[electricmanscott]

Good point. So if that is the case I would think the 2 space panel I mounted out side next to the hot tub which contains the 2 pole GFI breaker could actually be considered as a hot tub sub panel.
We might also be getting off the actual subject. The original problem is that Romex can,t be used in a residence to feed the hot tub because the Hot Tub unit has a factory light. At least that is the argument from my inspector.

If you are going to call that a panel then your romex would be a feeder. That would be a violation of 680.25
As for the original issue I think the inspector is off base.

 

[LarryFine]

We might also be getting off the actual subject. The original problem is that Romex can,t be used in a residence to feed the hot tub because the Hot Tub unit has a factory light. At least that is the argument from my inspector.

I still say she's incorrect. You're not feeding the light, the manufacturer did that. You're supplying a (presumed to be listed) packaged assembly, and, in my opinion, your responsibility ends at the wiring compartment.

 

[benaround]

djsr,

check this out.

IV Spars and Hot Tubs
680.40 spas and hot tubs shall comply with part I and part IV of this article.

ok, she cited 680.23 , correct?

680.23 is in part II of this article, does not relate to hot tubs!!!

What is she going to do now ?

 

[Power Tech]

My inspector is very good and she is very through. I respect her and enjoy talking code issues with her. She is adamant she is right and also claims she has brought this subject up at conferences she attended and also spoke to the NFPA guys and they all side with her.
How can I help her see it my way?

Flirt with her?

 

[Power Tech]

Good point. So if that is the case I would think the 2 space panel I mounted out side next to the hot tub which contains the 2 pole GFI breaker could actually be considered as a hot tub sub panel.
We might also be getting off the actual subject. The original problem is that Romex can,t be used in a residence to feed the hot tub because the Hot Tub unit has a factory light. At least that is the argument from my inspector.

Can you get a cut sheet from the OEM to satisfy her. Is it possible it is a fiber optic light?

Perhaps you can forward her this forum.

She may be wrong but, it would best to keep it on a friendly tone.

Start out by saying your right.....

 

[djsr123@aol.com]

Looks like we are all wrong ???

Looks like we are all wrong ???

I could not convince my inspector so I inquired with the guys at NFPA. They sided with my inspector. I still don't buy it. Art 680.42.C does talk about a light, but the way it is written I would argue that is for an added light in a hot tub that was built on site. As for as the self contained unit with the heater, motor and control portion of this article they simply for got to mention the self contained LV light fixture. Either way it is probably time to throw in the towel.

Thank you for your email concerning the National Electrical Code? (NEC?).

NOTE: Enforcement of any provision within the NEC? is the responsibility of the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ).

The following reply is based upon the provisions of the NEC? 2008.

This reply is in follow-up to our conversation and the email below. The self-contained hot tub carries a Underwriters Laboratories listing and is to be installed in accordance with the supplied instructions as directed in 110.3(B).

The requirements of Article 680 Part IV apply to hot tub installations. The Code sections referenced in your email address outdoor installations, therefore, the following is based on that location. Section 680.42(C) permits the use of an uninsulated equipment grounding conductor (EGC) in the branch circuit to a self-contained tub which has only motor, heating and control circuits. For a hot tub that also includes an underwater luminaire, the wiring methods of 680.23 or 680.33 apply. The branch circuit requirement in 680.23(F) is therefore applicable and specifies an insulated EGC. This section also provides alternatives to Type MC cable but in all cases requires an insulated EGC for the branch circuit.

Also the branch circuit conductors installed to the hot tub must be suitable for location. As stated in Section 334.12(B), Type NM cable is not permitted to be installed in a wet or damp location (see the definitions in Article 100).

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This correspondence is NOT a Formal Interpretation issued pursuant to NFPA Regulations. Any opinion expressed is the personal opinion of the author and does not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, this correspondence is neither intended, nor should be relied upon, to provide professional consultation or services.

Christopher Coache
Senior Electrical Engineer
National Fire Protection Association

 

[Power Tech]

Can't win um all.

You gave it a good effort.

Tough lady, thanks for sharing.

I'm running conduit to hot tubs from now on.

 

[Oakey]

So if it has a light there saying it has to have an insulated EGC even for indoor wiring?

 

[boboelectric]

Just say ok 10-4,and move on to the next encounter.

 

[newservice]

grrrrrrrrrr...Im still not convinced you are wrong either..