Outlet box and lighting fixture

[jaylectricity]

Today, using my screwdriver I poked through the small hole in the tile where the wire for the vanity light poked through to see if I should cut a hole for an oldwork box or use a pancake box. I felt a stud right on center of where the light bar would go. So I cut the hole for the pancake box only to find out that it was actually the PVC vent pipe that I was feeling.

What I ended up doing was making up the splice in the pancake box, attaching it to the back plate of the fixture with the 8-32 machine screws. Then I mounted the back plate of the fixture to the tile using wall anchors and screws through the factory cut mounting holes towards each end of the light bar.

There is no gap between the junction box and the fixture, everything is bonded, the box is securely attached to the fixture and the fixture is securely attached to the wall. But technically the box itself is not screwed into any of the building finish. Is this a violation of any code?

 

[mcclary's electrical]

314.23 a-h

 

[Sierrasparky]

Looks like you saved the day.
Take a bow,

 

[TobyD]

Seem's fine too me.I would have slid a piece of wood betwwen the wall board and pipe.Then used drywall screws through the wall board to the added piece of wood to secure.Then screw the pancake box too your added wood.With the backing plate on the light all the scews would still have been covered from what I can understand.

 

[jaylectricity]

314.23 a-h

The box is rigidly supported...look at C, did I nullify it being a finished surface by cutting a hole in the tile?

Also, what about old work switchboxes? My box is secured more than an old work box with holding straps, or those flags that come on the plastic old work boxes.

 

[jaylectricity]

Seem's fine too me.I would have slid a piece of wood betwwen the wall board and pipe.Then used drywall screws through the wall board to the added piece of wood to secure.Then screw the pancake box too your added wood.With the backing plate on the light all the scews would still have been covered from what I can understand.

I would have done that too, but the finished surface was flooring tile, so I wouldn't have been able to patch the tiny holes too easily. Maybe if I had rotated the wood so the screws went into the grout and then regrout, but that sounds like a lot of trouble.

Oops, I see what you mean. Yeah, I could have done that if there was clearance between the pipe and the hardi-backer board.

 

[electricmanscott]

Sounds like a good fix to me.

Is there really any reason not to screw the box to the vent pipe.

 

[TobyD]

Since you mentioned it,I may be guility of screwing the box to a vent pipe a time or two..You never know it may be a drain pipe or etc..So I try to avoid running any screws into the piping to make sure.We had a situation at a local city municiple building where a lag bolt was accidently run into a plastic drain pipe and after a few years the bolt rusted out and sewage was seeping down the walls.After the smell was pin pointed a major renovaton was in order.

 

[jaylectricity]

Hold on a minute...you mean to tell me that some of you screw into a plumbing pipe?

 

[infinity]

Plumbing systems are supposed to be water tested to pass plumbing inspections. That means closing off all drain points, inserting a garden house in the roof stack pipe and filling the system with water until it over flows onto the roof. My guess is that during the test some water will come out of the fixture box. If the plumbing has already passed inspection it's likely that no one will ever know if you put a screw into the vent pipe.

 

[iwire]

What I ended up doing was making up the splice in the pancake box, attaching it to the back plate of the fixture with the 8-32 machine screws. Then I mounted the back plate of the fixture to the tile using wall anchors and screws through the factory cut mounting holes towards each end of the light bar.

IMO that is a violation, the box must support it self without the fixture or device installed.

Have I done the same thing for the same reasons .... yes.

314.23 a-h

The box is rigidly supported...look at C,

"C" is talking about old works being secured with mad bars or clamps etc.

In your case you supported the box with a fixture, I do not see that option in "C"

Also, what about old work switch boxes? My box is secured more than an old work box with holding straps, or those flags that come on the plastic old work boxes.

That is exactly what 314.23(C) allows 'clamps, anchors, or fittings identified for the application'

 

[infinity]

IMO that is a violation, the box must support it self without the fixture or device installed.

Have I done the same thing for the same reasons .... yes.

I agree that it's a technical violation. Would I do it, yup. :roll:

 

[greenjeans]

I never support anything from plumbing pipes, that would be a liability, when water dripping down the wall . the best way i have found is the caulk/screw a piece of 1/2" wood to inside 4" drywall hole (short 1" screws) Then attach 4" pan box, works great .

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

The installation will work in regards to the box is secure while the fixture is secure, and this is a creative installation.
The way I see this ever creating a bad situation for the installer/contractor is in the future. Something goes wrong and the box installation is a violation that can come back to bite you.


We had an electrical fire a number of weeks back. It destroyed most of the building and put 4 businesses out. I met with the fire investigators for the different companies. This fire was definitely electrical and definitely the electrician's fault due to many violations in the service (which is where the fire started). The job is not even 3 yrs old...I am sure the EC was not thinking anything would go wrong, especially creating a situation which would bring electrical forensic experts to this site.

Just something that is always in the back of my mind....

 

[LarryFine]

Hold on a minute...you mean to tell me that some of you screw into a plumbing pipe?

Well, not on purpose.

 

[infinity]

Hold on a minute...you mean to tell me that some of you screw into a plumbing pipe?

Actually I would use a big glob of silicone to secure the box to the pipe.

 

[iwire]

Actually I would use a big glob of silicone to secure the box to the pipe.

:grin:

Silicone is better then duct tape ....... I always have both around.

 

[jaylectricity]

So, long story short...I should try not to have to do that very often. Honestly I need to learn to put up a 1" X 5" piece of pine in the general area of the light so I can screw to it later.

Too often the customer or plumber doesn't know exactly where the center of the plumbing fixture will be.

 

[220/221]

If the plumbing has already passed inspection it's likely that no one will ever know if you put a screw into the vent pipe.

Until the next remodel/fill test.