In House Apprenticeship

[Strahan]

Currently at our industrial facility we are working on putting together an electrical apprenticeship program that will have State approval. I have been asked to sit in on a committee consisting of 3Union and 3Company employess. This committee will lay out the structure, material and time required to complete the apprenticeship program. This program will involve in house on the job training, some in house education and out of house education. We are in the very early stages of setting this program up and I would like some feedback of ideas from you all if I could.

Years it should take to complete an electrical apprenticeship?
Layout in order of material to be covered?
Required passing grade?

I think we would be looking at atleast 4years for one to be comfortable. Material should start very basic and progress from there. Ex AC, DC fundamentals, Residential , commercial and then into Industrial. Of course we are looking to stress industrial the most so we can reap from the benefits.
Any ideas or thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

 

[BAHTAH]

Apprenticeship

Apprenticeship

In order to be approved by the state you will most likely have to meet the same requirements as a Union program. That is typically 4yrs and sometimes 5yrs and 8000 hours in the field. I would look at the Union program for the hours. As far as teaching materials you might want to take a look at those offered by the "National Center for Construction Education and Reasearch" out of Gainesville, Flordia. I know their materials are used by Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC) (non-union program) and I think also by the IBEW in some locations. Also I know ABC is using some of Mike Holts material which has gained acceptance recently in our part of the country. Good luck, you have a lot of work ahead of you.

 

[iMuse97]

Both Union & Non-Union Electrical Apprenticeship programs are regulated by the U.S. Dep't of Labor and have to meet certain minimum standards to qualify the graduates as Electricians.

8000 hours On the Job Training (OJT), 144 hours classroom time per year, and the curriculum is prescribed, from what I've experienced, Union and not.

 

[Strahan]

First I should mention I don't want this to become a Union, Non-Union topic but I think it is important that I mention I have been asked to represent the Union side on this matter.
A rep. from the Dept. of Labor has been involved on a limited basis and I have been kept from talking with him, but from what I'm being told is that it is up to us to develop a curriculum and he will either grant it acceptable or non-acceptable. Am I missing something here? Now we should remember this is the State of PA, but I would think he should have given us some very discrete guidelines to follow. From the company side I can see there advantage but I would like this to be a credited apprenticeship. I had my first meeting with the group and I get the feeling this is more so to benefit the company which I understand, but I would like to push this farther. Any thoughts or ideas?:-?

 

[celtic]

.... I have been asked to represent the Union side on this matter.
A rep. from the Dept. of Labor has been involved on a limited basis and I have been kept from talking with him, but from what I'm being told is that it is up to us to develop a curriculum and he will either grant it acceptable or non-acceptable. Am I missing something here? Now we should remember this is the State of PA, but I would think he should have given us some very discrete guidelines to follow. From the company side I can see there advantage but I would like this to be a credited apprenticeship. I had my first meeting with the group and I get the feeling this is more so to benefit the company which I understand, but I would like to push this farther. Any thoughts or ideas?:-?

Get in touch with your District's International VP:
http://www.ibew.org/IBEW/directory/SearchDirectory/States.asp?State=PA&District=3&offset=0

Why play games?

 

[Strahan]

Get in touch with your District's International VP:
http://www.ibew.org/IBEW/directory/SearchDirectory/States.asp?State=PA&District=3&offset=0

Why play games?

Thanks! I will do so!

 

[petersonra]

I don't see any reason to try and come up with something on your own if you can get it from the IBEW.

I am kind of surprised that the company would want to do their own thing.

Isn't apprenticeship programs something already covered by your contract?

One thing you may find is that what is good for the company might not be real transferable. Industrial electricians often seem to end up as either mostly instrument techs or mostly light bulb changers. Not a lot of pipe and wire work, IOW.

 

[fillmorr]

im just going to throw this out but im in 4th year right now using the nccer materials and i know from hearing from the instructors that they had to become certified as a instructor to teach the materials

 

[Rockyd]

One thing you may find is that what is good for the company might not be real transferable. Industrial electricians often seem to end up as either mostly instrument techs or mostly light bulb changers. Not a lot of pipe and wire work, IOW.

I'd have to challenge that. A good industrial electrician should be able to run circles around most when it comes to pipework (least when I was apprenticing at a pulp mill, add-ons, breakdowns)). That said, what is dissappointing is that unless the student gets his residential experience first, many miss an important part of the industry.

Residential is a great starting point for an apprentice, because it relatively easy to keep an eye on them. Easy to learn, and healthy work habits. Simple concepts can be grown as they move into commercial. By their third year, they should be proffient enough to do industrial - motor control, VFD's, PVC coated GRC, Medium voltage splicing, instrumentation.

I'd call the union (get some mileage out of those dues!) and see what they can do for you...in addition to using Mike Holt's materials for a four year program. At least see what is available for a reasonable investment of all concerned.

 

[Strahan]

I'd have to challenge that. A good industrial electrician should be able to run circles around most when it comes to pipework (least when I was apprenticing at a pulp mill, add-ons, breakdowns)). That said, what is dissappointing is that unless the student gets his residential experience first, many miss an important part of the industry.

Residential is a great starting point for an apprentice, because it relatively easy to keep an eye on them. Easy to learn, and healthy work habits. Simple concepts can be grown as they move into commercial. By their third year, they should be proffient enough to do industrial - motor control, VFD's, PVC coated GRC, Medium voltage splicing, instrumentation.

I'd call the union (get some mileage out of those dues!) and see what they can do for you...in addition to using Mike Holt's materials for a four year program. At least see what is available for a reasonable investment of all concerned.

I agree with your statements, but think I should note that this union is not the IBEW and they currently do not have any apprenticeships that I am aware of. We are in the early stages of whats going to be a lengthy process we know. This has to be both beneficial to the plant and apprentices involved. We are looking into alot of different training materials at this time and Mike's stuff is definetly being considered mostly for code material.

 

[everyja]

If and when this apprenticeship starts will the apprentices be working with journeymen?