J Box behind mirror

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augie47

augie47

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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Is a junction box installed behind a mirror which is secured by screws and clips a Code violation ?
 
314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures to Be Accessible.

Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that is to be used to establish the finished grade.
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I wouldn't consider a mirror installed as you describe 'part of the building'.
 
I personally don't like the idea, as I wouldn't think to look there when searching for splice points, . . .

But. There's little, if any difference when compaired with a j-box in the area behind kneewall where the access panel is secured with screws (and after a few paint jobs, painted shut).
 
Like Al, I don't like the idea, but it would be easier to get to than one half way under a house or in an attic I guess, but who would know it's there?

I may have to think about this one more.:-?
 
augie47 said:
Is a junction box installed behind a mirror which is secured by screws and clips a Code violation ?
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The best I can compare this to would be lay-in fixture installed in a drop ceiling with the j-box installed immediately above it. You'd have to unhook the grid wires, hurricane clips, and then remove the light to access the j-box and that's legal all day long. I don't like the hidden box behind the mirror but I can't see it being much different than this....
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
If it's a framed mirror and hangs with wire or clips then no problem. If it requires tools then i say you covered it and it gets tagged.
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Jim, even if it only takes one tool to access the j-box it gets tagged?:D
gnshg16c_1_1.jpg
 
cowboyjwc said:
Like Al, I don't like the idea, but it would be easier to get to than one half way under a house or in an attic I guess, but who would know it's there?

I may have to think about this one more.:-?
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This is about what nec says, not what we think. Nobody will have a clue it is even there after 5 years. Will be hard enough to find behind a picture. The mind forgets details fast. Lot of things in my own house that i wish i had made note of.
 
If you go back two or three code cycles, it used to tell you that boxes could not be concealed by building structure or finish, and then the debate was always what is considered finish? We would have considered that a mirror that is screwed to the wall, like over a bath sink, would be considered finish, and a box shouldn't be behind that. But then if the homeowner screws a mirror over a box in the bedroom, is he committing a violation by covering a box? Is that "finish" or an embellishment, like a picture?
Obviously you wouldn't plan an installation with a box hidden behind a mirror, but how much effort should you go through to change an installation that ends up that way? I don't believe that a mirror that can be easily removed with a screwgun should be considered "the building" for the purposes of this article, but gosh it's a close call. If it's easier to remove than that is it OK, and harder than this would it be a violation? The only problem with the mirror is that it creates a potential mystery. I'd be awfully certain that the joints are really well done in that box, and I'd even consider leaving a note in the surrounding boxes that that box exists.
 
As others have said, it wouldn't be my first choice, but it's better than burying a wirenut-and-tape splice with no box at all.

As food for thought, what about a box behind an upper kitchen cabinet that can be dropped by removing four or so screws?
 
macmikeman said:
Jim, even if it only takes one tool to access the j-box it gets tagged?:D
gnshg16c_1_1.jpg
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This same tool is often used to find ones buried in sheet rock or plaster.... Likewise, I often use a screw-driver to find boxes in plaster - just poking it through - sometimes just willy nilly out of spite....

Locally - and we have some fairly neurotic anal retentive inspectors - a mirror with clips would be 'part of the building'... And I agree...

The point of that particular code is to provide access for testing, inspection, and modification.... If you were the 'sucker' stuck looking for it when troubleshooting it would be a full fledged - no contest - violation.... Interpretation is all about perspective is it not? :roll:
 
augie47 said:
Is a junction box installed behind a mirror which is secured by screws and clips a Code violation ?
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Bad idea. Violation-I dunno.
cowboyjwc said:
I don't like the idea, but it would be easier to get to than one half way under a house or in an attic I guess, but who would know it's there?
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I agree. One would expect to find a j-box in an attic or a crawl even if it were hard to get to. But behind a mirror????
LarryFine said:
what about a box behind an upper kitchen cabinet that can be dropped by removing four or so screws?
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If the box is burried behind the cabinet I no like for the same reason as the mirror, however, in this case the box could be blanked inside the cabinet.
 
Dont know about others but i would not remove a mirror that is screwed in place, maybe a cabinet. And key word is REMOVE.
NEC does not deal or care about how costly it will be to comply. Personally if this was just romex and 2 wires with perfect splice, pretwisted, wire nut and taped i would say there will never be a need to open that box. With that being said i also would tag it if i had the inspectors hat on.
 
jckenner said:
................... But then if the homeowner screws a mirror over a box in the bedroom, is he committing a violation by covering a box? Is that "finish" or an embellishment, like a picture?.................
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If my ugly face is in it ,.... definitely not an embellishment:-?
 
electricmanscott said:
No, the key word is "part of the building"

Taking down a mirror would not be considered "removing part of the building" nor should it be.

No violation and no big deal in my view.
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No the key word is ,...

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of
being removed or exposed without damaging the building
structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the struc-
ture or finish of the building.
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If hung with a back wire not a problem . screws clips and glue not gonna fly where I work
 
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