We just finished the installation of a new Fire Alarm system in our facility, all new wiring and devices. The annual sprinkler inspector noticed that several sections of the low voltage wiring was attached to the existing overhead sprinkler piping via nylon tie straps. Is this a code violation?
Fire Alarm cable mounted to Sprinkler Pipe
- Thread starter baxter4
- Start date
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Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
The section number to support what Brennan stated is 760.24, the second sentence.
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
A related article is 760.143
"Nothing is supposed to be supported from sprinkler piping"
Agreed. I'm sure the NEC isn't the only code that covers this.
"Nothing is supposed to be supported from sprinkler piping"
Agreed. I'm sure the NEC isn't the only code that covers this.
RICK NAPIER
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
If they are using NFPA 13 it is not allowed under 9.1.1.7 "Sprinkler piping or hangers shall not be used to support non-system components"
It does not matter, unless it is Linear Heat detection (Protect-O-Wire) cable it cannot be attached to the Sprinkler pipe. The cable must pertain to the Sprinkler system to be attached, Linear Heat detection is considered to be a faction of the Sprinkler system, if you are referring to an SLC or Notification..........Denied !
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
I am not sure why I see so many installations where the installer has secured his wiring method to pipe, conduit, raceways, whatever one wants to call them.
Why is this such a prevalent installation practice?
Why is this such a prevalent installation practice?
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
Laziness was the first thing that came to mind...
But I'm sure some people claim ignorance too...:roll:
The phrase "independently supported to the structure" is what they scream at you when you zip to pipe around here. I agree, it's lazy, or it's a boss yelling just get it there. It just looks bad, I do not understand why people do it. Neatness counts, not just for 110.3 It not much of a stretch to use a one hole zip tie, or is it? Personally i like hang j hooks or Bridle rings if I cannot strap if to the top of a bar joist.
Of course piping the job is better, but I digress.
Of course piping the job is better, but I digress.
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
With new construction, there is no excuse or reason. I have seen a fair share of old work where the ceiling deck is not accessible at all to attach separate hangers, and I think that's where a lot of 'strapping to whatever looks solid' comes into play. Then again, laying cable across the grid happens too, so I don't know. I think Cow nailed it with "laziness".
I'm pretty sure it was the first day or week on the job I was taught not to secure cable to sprinkler pipe.
MAK
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts-Boston
My boss would tell me to use the ceiling grid hangers to strap any low voltage cabling. I mentioned to him that it is not permitted unless you install your own. He responds to me to not take the code too literally.
I don't think they factor that into the jobs, mostly small jobs. I do try to install it properly when I can without getting too much static from him.
My boss would tell me to use the ceiling grid hangers to strap any low voltage cabling. I mentioned to him that it is not permitted unless you install your own. He responds to me to not take the code too literally.
I do try to install it properly when I can without getting too much static from him.
When there is a fire in one of the buildings, and the fireman are working the ceiling and the cables gets intangled in the firemans breathing pack, have your boss tell the firemans family. the job was just too small to do it safe, a boss with no brains.
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
My boss would tell me to use the ceiling grid hangers to strap any low voltage cabling. I mentioned to him that it is not permitted unless you install your own. He responds to me to not take the code too literally.
I see the response from your employer as a typical response from someone who will use any excuse to save money and does not give a hoot about any codes that infringe upon his bottom line.
TLBryant
Member
- Location
- West Virginia
Fire alarm = life safety
Fire alarm = life safety
When will people understand that fire alarm systems are life safety systems?
When you cheat the code, take short cuts, and use cheap materials, you are endangering the life of every person that enters the building. Period.
Fire alarm = life safety
When will people understand that fire alarm systems are life safety systems?
When you cheat the code, take short cuts, and use cheap materials, you are endangering the life of every person that enters the building. Period.
RJohnsonMasterElectrician
Senior Member
- Location
- Right now ??, previously VT
I agree Lazy, unlicensed workers or supervision of them, and Inspectors who are so short handed running through buildings doing inspections they don't see this stuff. Or inspectors of different trades inspecting and not knowing what to look for, test for.
I have one right now on one of my jobs, he is a natural gas inspector testing my FA system and then when he gets back to the office he is a plan review person.
The Air breathing system fire fighters wear are called SCBA's (Self Contained Breathing Apparratus)
I have one right now on one of my jobs, he is a natural gas inspector testing my FA system and then when he gets back to the office he is a plan review person.
The Air breathing system fire fighters wear are called SCBA's (Self Contained Breathing Apparratus)
MAK
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts-Boston
I wouldn't say any codes but there have been several jobs where we do not install our own supports. I never strap anything to conduit or sprinkler pipes but the ceiling grid support wires are a difficult argument for me to win. We had always done it that way. It was not until I got my LV license that I discovered that we had been doing it improperly. Unfortunately for this arguments sake we had never failed an inspection for fastening cable to the ceiling grid support wires. I suppose until we do it will be this way.
I do push (when within my power) to install to code. I do not think it will be this way forever because I am getting more freedom to do things as I see fit.
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
By Code, If you hang your own ceiling grid support wires and mark them then they will continue to pass... :grin:
I totally agree with the lack of consideration for Life Safety also.
While it been my pleasure to work with the stuff, it's also nice to pass it off.
I've never seen it addressed badly, but it's always been a new install...
Mostly, I think it's also Code specific to the individual equipment in the ceiling.
There is work space requirements around all components, above ceiling A/C is the most common, the door to it needs a dedicated space requirement.
I beleive both of the following are in national codes in some manner:
| I've also seen it stated in new spec. any installs will be a minimum of two inches from another service.
|Their individual equipment spec will also say no foriegn equipment shall be attached, not unlike ours.
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