sub panel wiring

[substation guy]

We all know that you need to isolate the neutral and grounding conductors in a sub panel. From what i have learned is the majority of guys i worked with when i started out knew this had to be done but didnt know why. This seems to be a reoccuring problem in the field. Is this just a lack of training? or is it a failure of more experienced techs not passing on information or taking time to explain theory to apprentices

 

[romeo]

sub panel wiring

We all know that you need to isolate the neutral and grounding conductors in a sub panel. From what i have learned is the majority of guys i worked with when i started out knew this had to be done but didnt know why. This seems to be a reoccuring problem in the field. Is this just a lack of training? or is it a failure of more experienced techs not passing on information or taking time to explain theory to apprentices

It may be that some don't care enough to learn why.The information is available to those that really want to know.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Another thought. . . education takes away from gettin' er done.

Also, most of the work of installation, especially in dwellings, is on the branch circuits. A very simple set of instructions can result in a lot of work getting done correctly.

The parallel current paths to the Grounded Service Conductor is a complex lesson. And the minimizing of unbalance "neutral" current on the conductive parts and surfaces of a structure is even more complex.

Apprentices are expected to pay for their own education, and to earn their keep on the job.

IMO, the cards are stacked in such a way that the least resistance path is the one that results in the greatest amount of low cost labor, with minimum emphasis on education.

 

[substation guy]

just what i was talking about. Its ignorant statements like these that hold people back in the field. Dont you want your employees to understand why they are doing what they are doing? Dont you think it creates a better smarter work force? Oh yeah i forgot its all about your wallet any monkey can run wire or bend conduit, knowledge is power keep em stupid. And oh by the way it really isnt all that complicated and you have time to teach em.

 

[LarryFine]

Dont you want your employees to understand why they are doing what they are doing?

I do. A large portion of our work is improvisation. We have to figure out how to relate the rules in general to our particular situation in the specific.

If we understand the rationale and reasoning behind the rules, we can better apply those rules, and meet the intent when the pathway is less than clear.

 

[triplstep]

/QUOTE]

Another thought. . . education takes away from gettin' er done.

IMO, the cards are stacked in such a way that the least resistance path is the one that results in the greatest amount of low cost labor, with minimum emphasis on education.

Isn't that the truth. Pierre opened up a topic last week regarding the education of electricians, or the lack there-of. The irony of education is, in the long run, everybody profits more.

The parallel current paths to the Grounded Service Conductor is a complex lesson. And the minimizing of unbalance "neutral" current on the conductive parts and surfaces of a structure is even more complex.

There is a reason that pesky Article 250 is the most complicated read in the USA......
I agree Al, this is not the easiest concept to grasp for the average bear.

 

[mjf]

Nec terminology

Nec terminology

We all know that you need to isolate the neutral and grounding conductors in a sub panel. From what i have learned is the majority of guys i worked with when i started out knew this had to be done but didnt know why. This seems to be a reoccuring problem in the field. Is this just a lack of training? or is it a failure of more experienced techs not passing on information or taking time to explain theory to apprentices

I can't believe no one is giving you a hard time about calling a downstream panel a "sub panel".

If I use the word "luminaire" instead of "light" or "light fixture" and "lamp" instead of "bulb" when talking to a homeowner or even at the supply house, they don't know what the heck I'm talking about.......... but if I do it on this forum......I'm a bad guy

 

[jaylectricity]

I can't believe no one is giving you a hard time about calling a downstream panel a "sub panel".

If I use the word "luminaire" instead of "light" or "light fixture" and "lamp" instead of "bulb" when talking to a homeowner or even at the supply house, they don't know what the heck I'm talking about.......... but if I do it on this forum......I'm a bad guy

I would like to know who on this forum considers you a bad guy for using the word lamp instead of bulb.

 

[LarryFine]

I can't believe no one is giving you a hard time about calling a downstream panel a "sub panel".

If I use the word "luminaire" instead of "light" or "light fixture" and "lamp" instead of "bulb" when talking to a homeowner or even at the supply house, they don't know what the heck I'm talking about.......... but if I do it on this forum......I'm a bad guy

"Okay, lighten up, Francis!" ~ Sgt. Hulka in Stripes

 

[mjf]

I would like to know who on this forum considers you a bad guy for using the word lamp instead of bulb.

1. Notice wink on my original post...just having a little fun.
2. Sorry , didn't keep a running list of folks ( if I knew how to add a wink here, I would!)
3. Maybe "bad guy" was a poor choice of words.
4. Perhaps folks have mellowed out a bit, but they used to be pretty quick to point out that this is an NEC forum and that a "bulb" does not exist in the NEC, but is something you plant in the ground, etc, etc.


LMAO......I just noticed that one of the icon choices is called "lightbulb".....thats pretty ironic.

 

[LarryFine]

if I knew how to add a wink here, I would!

Don't you have a little window with Smilies in it to the right of the reply box, where you find the Post Icons below it?

 

[mjf]

can't seem to find what you're talkin about

 

[iwire]

I would like to know who on this forum considers you a bad guy for using the word lamp instead of bulb.

I don't think it makes him a bad guy but I think lamp is a more professional term.

I was taught landscapers plant bulbs, electricians install lamps.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I don't think it makes him a bad guy but I think lamp is a more professional term.

I was taught landscapers plant bulbs, electricians install lamps.

What happens when a landscaper is wiring fixtures...umm, I mean luminaires. Is he planting those fixtures and using bulbs instead of lamps???

No wonder they can't seem to get the job installed correctly.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I can't believe no one is giving you a hard time about calling a downstream panel a "sub panel".

If I use the word "luminaire" instead of "light" or "light fixture" and "lamp" instead of "bulb" when talking to a homeowner or even at the supply house, they don't know what the heck I'm talking about.......... but if I do it on this forum......I'm a bad guy

In our industry, the better educated one is the less likely one is to use the job slang.
But...if one does not know most of the slang being used in his/her area, it is difficult at best to have a conversation with those who only know the slang.
What I have also learned, is those who use the slang and do not know the correct terms as per the NEC, are the ones who have the greatest difficulty in learning or using the NEC.

 

[jaylectricity]

Oh you sillies. I was calling into question the wording that when he calls a lamp a bulb on this forum he gets hammered on it.

 

[milehiwire]

I think iwire must be the true authority on the issue.

From the side of my "GE" lamp box, "Add a decorative touch by using Crystal Clear bulbs from GE".

Bow ye down to the ultimate authority on the subject.

Who is GE to disagree?

 

[al hildenbrand]

What I have also learned, is those who use the slang and do not know the correct terms as per the NEC, are the ones who have the greatest difficulty in learning or using the NEC.

Interesting observation.

What are some of the slang terms, if you recall? Is there a consistency of use of the slang between individuals?

 

[LarryFine]

can't seem to find what you're talkin about

Okay. Go into your Profile and select Edit Options. Go all the way to the bottom, in Miscellaneous Options and Message Editor Interface, and select Enhanced Interface - Full WISYWIG Editing.

 

[Flex]

I don't think it makes him a bad guy but I think lamp is a more professional term.

I was taught landscapers plant bulbs, electricians install lamps.

I have this discussion with a guy at work all the time. Isnt a lamp something you put on an end table. "honey turn on the lamp" or "honey turn on the fixture"