old work boxes for wall sconces

[mtnelectrical]

There is a job to mount some wall sconces in a place of assembly, so romex is not allowed. How could we mount this boxes (old work, wall can not be broken , they were just painted) for this wall sconces. Are madison clips enough support for the the metal boxes to hold these luminaries?

 

[mcclary's electrical]

There is a job to mount some wall sconces in a place of assembly, so romex is not allowed. How could we mount this boxes (old work, wall can not be broken , they were just painted) for this wall sconces. Are madison clips enough support for the the metal boxes to hold these luminaries?

Madison clips are switch supports, not fixture supports. Use a smartbox and cut it in beside a stud

 

[goldstar]

Smart boxes are a great idea if you're using RX cable. In this case the installation is in a place of assembly and he'll have to use MC and a metal box. I've seen the Arlington model # FBS1423 which is a 4" round box that screws to a stud or ceiling rafter. Stamped inside the box it indicates that the box can support up to 70 lbs. You'll just have to make sure that the canopy will cover the box. If you're installing a European made fixture it may not.

http://www.aifittings.com/whnew136.htm

 

[electricmanscott]

I would not have a problem using madison bars to mount the average wall sconce.

 

[iwire]

Madison clips are switch supports, not fixture supports. Use a smartbox and cut it in beside a stud

IMO they are 'box supports' and are not limited to switches.

That said to use a standard old work to support a wall fixture requires that the fixture does not weigh more than 6 pounds. If the wall fixture weighs over 6 pounds you will have to use a box with 8-32 mounting screws .... in other words a round box. 314.27(A)

 

[mcclary's electrical]

IMO they are 'box supports' and are not limited to switches.

That said to use a standard old work to support a wall fixture requires that the fixture does not weigh more than 6 pounds. If the wall fixture weighs over 6 pounds you will have to use a box with 8-32 mounting screws .... in other words a round box. 314.27(A)

Found this online, FWIT


Madison clips
Thin metal clips which are used in older work places to attach switches and receptacles.

 

[infinity]

IMO they are 'box supports' and are not limited to switches.

That said to use a standard old work to support a wall fixture requires that the fixture does not weigh more than 6 pounds. If the wall fixture weighs over 6 pounds you will have to use a box with 8-32 mounting screws .... in other words a round box. 314.27(A)

I agree the 6#'s is the deciding factor when mounting lighting fixture on a vertical surface with an old work box.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Found this online, FWIT
Madison clips
Thin metal clips which are used in older work places to attach switches and receptacles.

There is probably more pressure on a receptacle box then there would be on the light fixture when you consider that someone is plugging in and out of the recep.

I vote for finding a study unless the fixture is lightweight.

If you need to be in a certain location that is not next to a stud then perhaps a fan rated bar box would work. I never installed one in a stud wall but it seems like it would work.

 

[iwire]

Found this online, FWIT


Madison clips
Thin metal clips which are used in older work places to attach switches and receptacles.

UL lists them as "Outlet and Flush Device Supports" (QCRV)

Now if we want to talk abut something lets talk about using drywall as a structural element. :grin:

I think we will find that the drywall manufacturers prohibit using drywall to support equipment.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

UL lists them as "Outlet and Flush Device Supports" (QCRV)

Now if we want to talk abut something lets talk about using drywall as a structural element. :grin:

I think we will find that the drywall manufacturers prohibit using drywall to support equipment.

Good point.

 

[infinity]

I think we will find that the drywall manufacturers prohibit using drywall to support equipment.

No one really cares about that one. :grin:

It would put the toggle bolt manufacturers out of business.

 

[iwire]

No one really cares about that one. :grin:

It would put the toggle bolt manufacturers out of business.

Yes and yes. :grin:

 

[480sparky]

.............It would put the toggle bolt manufacturers out of business.

As well as the steel stud companies.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

UL lists them as "Outlet and Flush Device Supports" (QCRV)

Now if we want to talk abut something lets talk about using drywall as a structural element. :grin:

I think we will find that the drywall manufacturers prohibit using drywall to support equipment.

Bob
I do not believe that any NRTL lists Madison clips/bars.
You also bring up a good point, not only for box support, but that relates to a lot of different categories in the electrical industry. That is how much we need to be aware of with products or "building assemblies" that affect the work we do every day.

 

[iwire]

Bob
I do not believe that any NRTL lists Madison clips/bars.

I am not so sure. I believe I have seen some straps with UL stamped on them.

OUTLET BUSHINGS AND FITTINGS (QCRV)
GENERAL
This category covers supports for outlet and flush device boxes; bushings
for use in metal studs; fittings for use in or on outlet and flush device
boxes, such as knockout reducers, seals and insulating inserts, and cord grip
attachments; insulating gaskets used behind flush-device cover plates to
stop drafts; pulling grips, strain-relief grips and support grips; locknuts for
conduit; service entrance heads for rigid conduit or electrical metallic tubing;
cable riser supports; and bushings for use on the ends of rigid or flexible
conduit, or electrical metallic tubing, where a change to open wiring is
made.

 

[frankft2000]

I like to use Carlon's BH614R 3.5 inch sconce box. I have not found a fixture yet that doesn't cover it.

 

[electricmanscott]

I like to use Carlon's BH614R 3.5 inch sconce box. I have not found a fixture yet that doesn't cover it.

The fixture isn't the issue in this case.

 

[jmsbrush]

Smart boxes are a great idea if you're using RX cable. In this case the installation is in a place of assembly and he'll have to use MC and a metal box. I've seen the Arlington model # FBS1423 which is a 4" round box that screws to a stud or ceiling rafter. Stamped inside the box it indicates that the box can support up to 70 lbs. You'll just have to make sure that the canopy will cover the box. If you're installing a European made fixture it may not.

http://www.aifittings.com/whnew136.htm

That's a cool box. I never seen that one before.

 

[mtnelectrical]

BH614R is great when using romex, this is a place of assembly so mc or bx is needed. Thank you guys for all your inputs, wall sconces are light and not more than 2 lb. some of them can be relocated near the studs but some of them just can't. Using an old work bracket for fan support is I believe to much for a 2 lb luminarie.

 

[LarryFine]

Using an old work bracket for fan support is I believe to much for a 2 lb luminarie.

Maybe, but it's quick and versatile enough to use with wood framing when you're not against a stud, and around $15.

Also, they're metal and readily accept an angle MC connector, and removable if need be.