price for lighting retorofit

[guitarchris]

So we have a customer (a town actually) that is wanting to upgrade all of it's facilities to energy efficiency lighting. There will be a ton of upgrading old 2x4 layin's and 4' 2 tube recessed fluorescent fixtures and adding LED can lights. have many of you done much of this upgrading? They have the specs the engineer wants them to use, mostly lithonia retrofit type kits. Since I haven't done any of this I'm wondering how the best way to figure these types of job. Do those retrofit kits take much more time than ballast change outs?
We are meeting with them in the morning to get more info and quantities, I'll post the info as I get it.

 

[ceb58]

So we have a customer (a town actually) that is wanting to upgrade all of it's facilities to energy efficiency lighting. There will be a ton of upgrading old 2x4 layin's and 4' 2 tube recessed fluorescent fixtures and adding LED can lights. have many of you done much of this upgrading? They have the specs the engineer wants them to use, mostly lithonia retrofit type kits. Since I haven't done any of this I'm wondering how the best way to figure these types of job. Do those retrofit kits take much more time than ballast change outs?
We are meeting with them in the morning to get more info and quantities, I'll post the info as I get it.

You will be basically rebuilding the fixture. New tombstones, ballast, wireing and lamps. One way to price it would be by the unit but you need to be clear on what your responsibility will be. Moving furniture, working after hours in offices, ceiling height. Who is responsible for disposal of old ballast and tubes? If you are not clear on the scope what you think should only take 30 min. may wind up at an hour because of obstructions in the way, people in the way etc... As far as adding LED cans the same would go except for where your picking up the power, switching. Do they want dimmers, three ways? There are a lot of questions to be ask before jumping into it but it can be a good money making opportunity.

 

[cadpoint]

Here's what NC's is up to. You can get some ideas, form this:

http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/index.cfm?State=NC

Since it's public buildings I would think it would have to be engineered, but its just a thouhgt!

Read this direct link:

http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=NC79F&currentpageid=3&EE=1&RE=1

Are they trying to go LEED ?

 

[dduffee260]

Sometimes lighting companies go around and do these for $15 to $20 per fixture. Can you compete with that?

 

[guitarchris]

Here's what NC's is up to. You can get some ideas, form this:

http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/index.cfm?State=NC

Since it's public buildings I would think it would have to be engineered, but its just a thouhgt!

Read this direct link:

http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=NC79F&currentpageid=3&EE=1&RE=1

Are they trying to go LEED ?

Thanks for the Links!
They aren't going for LEED certification, just reducing the energy consumption as far as I know.

 

[guitarchris]

Sometimes lighting companies go around and do these for $15 to $20 per fixture. Can you compete with that?

On labor i can't compete with $15 a fixture as an average but might be close to $20 if I truly timed it out. I'm not sure what book time is on replacing a lay in fixtures but I factored .5 man-hours at $40/man-hour so I'm figuring it right on $20/fixture. Not sure if that's close or not, i haven't kept a good enough record of my time per fixture.

I found out today that the engineer is letting us choose whether we use a retrofit "guts" or replace the entire fixture. I expect it would be almost as easy to change out the entire fixture in most situations. That might eliminate the hassle of having the new guts not fit right.

Here is a list of what will be done:
67 2x4 4-lamp T-5 lay in
85 1x4 2-lamp T-5 lay in
6 1'x2' 2-lamp fixtures (hope I can find a suitable replacement.)
103 2 Lamp wrap around (T-8? or T-5? not sure what is avalible yet)
2 4 Lamp wrap
10 single lamp 4' strip prob T-8's
15 2 Lamp 4' strip
12 4 lamp 8' strip
6 CFL can lights
19 LED exit lights w/ egress lights (15 will be new installs, none previously)
5 Occupancy sensors replacing switches
11 Occupancy sensors on ceiling (only switches previously, drop ceiling)

 

[guitarchris]

I factored .5 man-hours at $40/man-hour so I'm figuring it right on $20/fixture.

But i would prefer $40 per fixture if it's fair, know what i mean!

 

[guitarchris]

Post deleted due to my complete incompetence..... I double posted

 

[LarryFine]

New tombstones . . .

I always wonder why new tombstones, presuming the existing ones are in good shape.

I have T-5'ed plenty of existing T-8 fixtures, and never routinely replace them. Just curious.

 

[MarkyMarkNC]

One other consideration to make when deciding whether to replace entire 2x4's or just the guts, is how clean-up. Taking old 2x4's out of the ceiling can create quite a bit of dust and debris.

 

[satcom]

Sometimes lighting companies go around and do these for $15 to $20 per fixture. Can you compete with that?

Anyone doing them for $15 to $20 is not someone you are competing with, at those prices they are not in business.

 

[rodneee]

even 3/4 hr might be low est

even 3/4 hr might be low est

i would highly recommend new 2X4's. even with new, in july of 2008 i learned the hard way. we installed 81 fixtures in a church hall (10 ft ceilings) in 104 man hours (52 mech and 52 helper) i was estimating 45 min per fixture. we got so bogged down uncrating, trash to dumpsters, replacing busted fittings etc

 

[JES2727]

I always wonder why new tombstones, presuming the existing ones are in good shape.

I have T-5'ed plenty of existing T-8 fixtures, and never routinely replace them. Just curious.

How do you fit the T-5 lamps in the T-8 tombstones??

 

[guitarchris]

i would highly recommend new 2X4's. even with new, in july of 2008 i learned the hard way. we installed 81 fixtures in a church hall (10 ft ceilings) in 104 man hours (52 mech and 52 helper) i was estimating 45 min per fixture. we got so bogged down uncrating, trash to dumpsters, replacing busted fittings etc

ouch! un packing stuff takes a good amount of time, that's a good consideration.

 

[dduffee260]

Anyone doing them for $15 to $20 is not someone you are competing with, at those prices they are not in business.

These large lighting firms that retrofit large stores, malls and shopping centers do these for $20. They are in business, I bet they use low paid help. How much experience does it take to get this down? I agree with you, I could not stay in business at that price. That is why we don't do these. Some of these may make extra money from parking lot service calls while they are at the store.

 

[ceb58]

I always wonder why new tombstones, presuming the existing ones are in good shape.

I have T-5'ed plenty of existing T-8 fixtures, and never routinely replace them. Just curious.

Just looking at retro kits. They come with tombstones, ballast etc....

i was estimating 45 min per fixture. we got so bogged down uncrating, trash to dumpsters, replacing busted fittings etc

I would use 45 per as a min. time. Time getting material in, take down, put up, wire in, move ladders and clean up. What about disposal of lamps and ballast? Disposal of fixture frames? There's more to it than meets the eye.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

I always wonder why new tombstones, presuming the existing ones are in good shape.

I have T-5'ed plenty of existing T-8 fixtures, and never routinely replace them. Just curious.

I think you meant t'8ed an existing t12

 

[LarryFine]

How do you fit the T-5 lamps in the T-8 tombstones??

My most humble apologies. I was thinking about converting T-12's to T-8's, not to T-5's. :roll: My bad.

The T-5's have small pin spacing. You can get T-5 tombstones to fit the original fixture mounting cut-outs?

 

[LarryFine]

I think you meant t'8ed an existing t12

Yeah, yeah, yeah . . . Crow for dinner tonight. :roll:


Added: Since we're on the T-12-to-T-8 subject (we are now, anyway), I've heard plenty who do routinely replace the tombstones with single-wire ones, while it's easy enough to connect both wires together. Why?

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Yeah, yeah, yeah . . . Crow for dinner tonight. :roll:


Added: Since we're on the T-12-to-T-8 subject (we are now, anyway), I've heard plenty who do routinely replace the tombstones with single-wire ones, while it's easy enough to connect both wires together. Why?

I agree, I only replace the tombstones if they're wore out. Not everytime