Pass or Fail Real Life

[stickboy1375]

pass, see it all the time.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

FAILED
#1 is 110.26
#2 no staples
#3 OSB board on concrete block. It needs to be treated wood
#4 depends on ahj as to protection of the wires
By not failing it you are sending a clear message that you not enforcing the code. This is why your seeing so much garbage work and if i was working there i would be upset because my price would been to do the job right. I can't bid aginst that kind of work

 

[__dan]

312-2 (a)

312-2 (a)

Airspace gap requirement for mounting in damp location, 312-2 (A). And something for the unrated (really improper) PAT nails.

 

[cadpoint]

...It's just Sad...

 

[peter d]

pass, see it all the time.

Why is it that the three guys here from New England don't see the problem with this?

 

[electricmanscott]

Why is it that the three guys here from New England don't see the problem with this?

Because from a common sense, safety, and real world view there is no problem with this. Of course from the "The sky is falling" side hundreds will be killed, mostly nuns, women, and you guess it, babies. :roll:

 

[electricmanscott]

FAILED
#1 is 110.26
#2 no staples
#3 OSB board on concrete block. It needs to be treated wood
#4 depends on ahj as to protection of the wires
By not failing it you are sending a clear message that you not enforcing the code. This is why your seeing so much garbage work and if i was working there i would be upset because my price would been to do the job right. I can't bid aginst that kind of work

# 1 Maybe the duct guy came in after the panel was installed. Fail him. Really though looks fine to me
#2 Valid reason technically
#3 NEC reference?
#4 B.S.

 

[Hendrix]

Why is it that the three guys here from New England don't see the problem with this?

Make it four

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Why is it that the three guys here from New England don't see the problem with this?

Joe Ross, Mark Hilbert, and James Rogers would not pass this, and they are all New Englanders.

 

[ultramegabob]

The OSB board is rated for 30 days of moisture

Where do you find that rating?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Pierre,
I don''t disagree with you, but would like to enter another thought. I've
inspected for a number of years, some of that time in a municipality with strict enforcement and strict licensing requirements. I've also inspected in rural areas where licensing was lenient and "homeowner" wiring is allowed. I think to some degree the inspector has to adapt to the environment and perhaps wear the "training hat" also.
If I used the same enforcement techniques in the "unlicensed" areas as I did in the City I would have a 90% rejection rate and limited employment.
I have had to prioritize on your #1 point "is it safe". Beyond that I have found it necessary to point out Code violations that are consistent for the area and caution that those are not going to be acceptable. Over time, the quality improves.
I'm not advocating my approach or saying it's "better" it's just different by necessity...I have had to adopt an approach somewhat like a "warning ticket".

Augie
You do not have to justify how you work with me, my post is simply my opinion. I know how it works here at the site, and do not expect to change anyone's mind or method of work by posting.

But....
Because enforcing the code will produce 90% failure rate is not a good reason to not enforce the code.
Also limiting ones income or job by enforcing the code is a sad statement as to the direction this industry has been moving. I see this happening in many locations and is one of the reasons I left the inspection industry. Competing against inspectors who make inspections from their livingroom, or drive bys, or going to the job and passing it to keep working is a slap in the face to this industry.

 

[ivsenroute]

But....
Because enforcing the code will produce 90% failure rate is not a good reason to not enforce the code.
Also limiting ones income or job by enforcing the code is a sad statement as to the direction this industry has been moving. I see this happening in many locations and is one of the reasons I left the inspection industry. Competing against inspectors who make inspections from their livingroom, or drive bys, or going to the job and passing it to keep working is a slap in the face to this industry.

The same exact problem exists here which is beyond sad for the industry. Many contractors only call the inspectors that alway pass them. These guys are called the "lick m n stick m" and do "drive-bys" or simply get on the jobsite and BS for a few minutes then leave without looking at anything.

Some of the photos that I have been posting were taken after someone else had recently done an inspection.

Inspectors are never popular unless they turn a blind eye.

There are a few ECs out there that appreciate getting what they paid for whether they passed or failed.

The other issue is contractors calling their councilman to complain because they failed an inspection and pressure from government above.

 

[electricmanscott]

Pierre,
I don''t disagree with you, but would like to enter another thought. I've
inspected for a number of years, some of that time in a municipality with strict enforcement and strict licensing requirements. I've also inspected in rural areas where licensing was lenient and "homeowner" wiring is allowed. I think to some degree the inspector has to adapt to the environment and perhaps wear the "training hat" also.
If I used the same enforcement techniques in the "unlicensed" areas as I did in the City I would have a 90% rejection rate and limited employment.
I have had to prioritize on your #1 point "is it safe". Beyond that I have found it necessary to point out Code violations that are consistent for the area and caution that those are not going to be acceptable. Over time, the quality improves.
I'm not advocating my approach or saying it's "better" it's just different by necessity...I have had to adopt an approach somewhat like a "warning ticket".

Gus, I am not trying to pick on you but your view here is inconsistent with another current thread. I guess it shows the difficulty that we all face outside of the forum. Of course I am not rerferring the the guys that work in a perfect world but those of us that work and inspect in the real world.

I somewhat agree, but I have been the name in that quote and it can be embarrassing. If you elect to make that decision (not to enforce something) you better be prepared to show why you think your preference outweighs that of a Code Panel.
I've inspected long enough to adopt an attitude that if you and I can find justification, great. If not, follow the book.
When its black & white in the book, I can't see any excuse to accept any violation.

 

[Hendrix]

Joe Ross, Mark Hilbert, and James Rogers would not pass this, and they are all New Englanders.

They wouldn't bother to look at something like this

 

[nakulak]

fail. .

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Gus, I am not trying to pick on you but your view here is inconsistent with another current thread. I guess it shows the difficulty that we all face outside of the forum. Of course I am not rerferring the the guys that work in a perfect world but those of us that work and inspect in the real world.

The perfect or real world being brought up here is just a smoke screen that some are hiding behind. Of course this is simply my opinion.
I do not see how hard or difficult or expensive or real world it is to not perform or install to some of the easiest requirements we see in the NEC. If it is really that difficult, there are easier jobs...that pay less of course.

They wouldn't bother to look at something like this

I know the above mentioned gentleman very well. When they were active in daily inspections, they were setting the foundation of a great industry, and making hard decisions inspecting in the field. They would not have walked by this kind of installation.

 

[Mister Kool]

fail!!!!!!fail!!!!!!!

no romex!!!!

wouldnt pass at all in chicago

 

[electricmanscott]

The perfect or real world being brought up here is just a smoke screen that some are hiding behind. Of course this is simply my opinion.
I do not see how hard or difficult or expensive or real world it is to not perform or install to some of the easiest requirements we see in the NEC. If it is really that difficult, there are easier jobs...that pay less of course.

.

Pierre, I am speaking in general terms. There are guys here that will look at something and just rattle off a code number that it violates without any regard to the actual installation. While they may be correct in theory, actual "real world" practice can be a different animal. In my view it is just unrealistic to think that the NEC can be applied to the letter in the field. For the most part new installations in new construction can follow the NEC but in retro work it is just not going happen.

I am speaking as a guy that works in the field every day and has done so for over 20 years. I'd like to say I've seen it all but I know there is more to come. But I do know you have to be creative and smart when it comes to working with and applying the various codes we deal with.


Anyone that says they have never knowingly violated the NEC is either new to the trade or just flat out lying.

The op's pic shows a violation for sure. It is one of those accepted violations in this area and I have no problem with it. Not every violation is a real safety concern and that applies here. It is a tough spot for an inspector to be in for sure and not one I would do well with should it be myself in that situation.

 

[electricmanscott]

fail!!!!!!fail!!!!!!!

no romex!!!!

wouldnt pass at all in chicago

Seriously dude. We are talking about the rest of the country where rational thinking is the rule not union pressure.

 

[SEO]

.

The op's pic shows a violation for sure. It is one of those accepted violations in this area and I have no problem with it.


Question do the inspectors in your area require securing any type of cable or raceway system or any electrical equipment? Where do they draw the line?