- Location
- Massachusetts
250.96 (a)
- Thread starter ivsenroute
- Start date
- Status
You did NOT mention the stud was present on the door in your OP.
That's changes the situation completely.
You need to give complete details. We can only base our answers on what was presented.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I do not see that makes a bit of difference, to me that is the same as saying I must always ground a 4" square with a wire because it has a tapped hole for a grounding screw.
My point was, in the original situation where there was no ground lug:
The cabinet is listed and did not have a lug (or a threaded screw hole for grounding in the case of a box) so I don't have to bond it.
With a 4 sq box, if it is already firmly bonded by another means then you dont need to bond it at the screw hole. I know its bonded by the EMT etc.
The OP supposed upon us that the cabinet door had no lug and was not bonded even when on its hinges. I say it is bonded on its hinges if there is no lug in a listed cabinet.
The cabinet is listed and did not have a lug (or a threaded screw hole for grounding in the case of a box) so I don't have to bond it.
With a 4 sq box, if it is already firmly bonded by another means then you dont need to bond it at the screw hole. I know its bonded by the EMT etc.
The OP supposed upon us that the cabinet door had no lug and was not bonded even when on its hinges. I say it is bonded on its hinges if there is no lug in a listed cabinet.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I still say the presence of a stud for a lug or even a lug makes no difference at all.
Too bad we cannot see the install manual of this. I wonder if this is mentioned.
Some of the cabinets I install with a lug plainly state it must be bonded.
That part isnt as important as the fact that 12 #12 THWN easily fit into 3/4" RMC (maybe not easy, but compliant)
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mivey
Senior Member
And there we can bash with impunity. :grin:
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
To me, this is the deciding factor: If these devices were field-installed, then it falls upon the installer to bond the doors.
ivsenroute
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
501.15(C)(6) There is always more to the story. You immediately assumed no and there are variables. When the conduit seal is not specifically labeled to be used above 25%.
If you are going to ask a question make it a complete question with all the variables otherwise the question will be answered based on the way you worded it.
In reality you've been searching for this way out for hours haven't you? :roll:
You should probably contact the person you issued the violation to an apologize.
Roger
- Location
- Massachusetts
OK then you have a reason.
Maybe you should word your question bit better.
Because that was very poorly worded if there was special considerations involved.
ivsenroute
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. My point is that not everything is as it appears and there is another side to the story. We sometimes jump to conclusion, both inspectors and ECs and sometimes we have to sit back and take a look from another angle.
As far as the reference to 501.15 is concerned, I am on my 3rd fuel island facility in less than a year and did not realize that this even existed until this one. Luckily the other 2 installations were spec'd out with spare conduits and conduit fill was not an issue.
Electrical work can be very complicated and many sections of the code can be interpreted different ways. Like this example I used intentionally, there are often codes that apply which may not be in the same section as where they should appear.
This is a great example. Maybe a footnote would work better in the section about conduit fill and in Ch 9.
As far as the reference to 501.15 is concerned, I am on my 3rd fuel island facility in less than a year and did not realize that this even existed until this one. Luckily the other 2 installations were spec'd out with spare conduits and conduit fill was not an issue.
Electrical work can be very complicated and many sections of the code can be interpreted different ways. Like this example I used intentionally, there are often codes that apply which may not be in the same section as where they should appear.
This is a great example. Maybe a footnote would work better in the section about conduit fill and in Ch 9.
- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
- Occupation
- Professional Electrical Engineer
Not to worry; UL didn't let anyone know it for over 25 years.
RETRAINDAILY
Senior Member
- Location
- PHX, arizona
one of the last control panel I did was suppose to be 18k the name plate said it was.
It showed up with a 10k main, 5k distribution block, 5k fuss holders, and wagos to land are motor leads (5k)
UL just approves the design they don't inspect the unit. My inspector caught that and was correct. 2 days to fix it.
Another UL listed unit on the same job didn't work at all, inputs were output and output were inputs.
Just because it says UL don't mean its right.
All the doors were grounded though. they got that right.
It showed up with a 10k main, 5k distribution block, 5k fuss holders, and wagos to land are motor leads (5k)
UL just approves the design they don't inspect the unit. My inspector caught that and was correct. 2 days to fix it.
Another UL listed unit on the same job didn't work at all, inputs were output and output were inputs.
Just because it says UL don't mean its right.
All the doors were grounded though. they got that right.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
For most UL508A panel shops, UL does perform regular spot checks of the assembly location, they do not just look at the drawings. Hopefully UL was notified of this situation.
You are correct, UL does not normally check the performance or design of a control panel, they normally are only concerned with the parts used and how they are assembled.
Wagos on a motor? Is this common practice somewhere? What type of occupancy?
RETRAINDAILY
Senior Member
- Location
- PHX, arizona
It was part of convoying system and the panel was subbed out to a ul508 shop I notified the conveyor manufacture.
with a nice fat BILL
RETRAINDAILY
Senior Member
- Location
- PHX, arizona
NO anyone in are company does that they would be FIRED immediately if not sooner.
But it is ul listed so I left the wires long enough to reach the inverters and as soon as we get a final there coming out!
jaylectricity
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Occupation
- licensed journeyman electrician
AW...that is all.
- Status