Fabricated Junction Boxes

[Andybob007]

Can we fabricate our own metal junction boxes? Our local inspector has indicated the NEC requires all junction boxes to be UL listed. One of our associates in our department was told the same thing in an IEEE seminar. I can not finnd this in the code book. I have found where the code book references the thickness and material requirements, but I can not find wher metal boxes are required to be listed.

 

[roger]

Unless these fabricated boxes are installed in a wet location, (314.15) I agree with you.

Roger

 

[chris kennedy]

Unless these fabricated boxes are installed in a wet location, (314.15) I agree with you.

Roger

I would like to add the same is true for metal wireways. 376.10(3)

 

[72gs455]

How about this...

How about this...

Noted in 90.7
FPN No.1 see requirements in 110.3
FPN No.2 which leads you to ART.100 for Listed
FPN No.3 Annex A contains an informative list of product safety standrds forelectrical equipment

I feel it must listed.

But who am I?

 

[augie47]

Locally, they must be listed based on 110.3.

 

[iwire]

Locally, they must be listed based on 110.3.

There is nothing in 110.3 that requires equipment to be listed.

 

[iwire]

Noted in 90.7
FPN No.1 see requirements in 110.3
FPN No.2 which leads you to ART.100 for Listed
FPN No.3 Annex A contains an informative list of product safety standrds forelectrical equipment

I feel it must listed.

But who am I?

How about going to Article 314 and seeing if boxes for dry locations must be listed?

 

[augie47]

There is nothing in 110.3 that requires equipment to be listed.

my error (used my memory)_ 110.2 and I noted "Locally". AHJs here will not accept (approve) enclosures that are not listed.

 

[iwire]

my error (used my memory)_ 110.2 and I noted "Locally". AHJs here will not accept (approve) enclosures that are not listed.

I see.

So how does a contractor know?

Do the AHJs allow uni strut?

 

[augie47]

I see.

So how does a contractor know?

Do the AHJs allow uni strut?

The boxes used around here have a UL label.....

never saw any that had a problem strut, but since you asked I looked a piece I had on my truck and it does have a UL label (it's B-Line)

 

[72gs455]

Ok fine... 90.7 of the 2008 NEC is the requirement.

Also I read in the first post the AHJ required it be listed.

 

[roger]

Ok fine... 90.7 of the 2008 NEC is the requirement.

Read the first sentence of 90.7 "For specific items of equipment and materials referred to in this Code", notice the word "specific" and boxes in dry locations are not specifically required to be listed, Also take note that 90.7 is not a code requirement it is just part of the introduction to the code.

Also I read in the first post the AHJ required it be listed.

No, the inspector said it was an NEC requirement which it is not.

Roger

 

[cowboyjwc]

I would allow it as long as it met the thickness requirements, but since I don't carrry a micromiter with me, I would never know if it did or not.

 

[rbalex]

The oft forgotten AHJ

The oft forgotten AHJ

I usually avoid these discussions, but we sometimes forget there is another AHJ out there besides the local authorities. From 29CFR:

1910.303(a)
Approval. The conductors and equipment required or permitted by this subpart shall be acceptable only if approved, as defined in Sec. 1910.399.

1910.399
Approved. Acceptable to the authority enforcing this subpart. The authority enforcing this subpart is the Assistant Secretary of Labor for Occupational Safety and Health. The definition of "acceptable" indicates what is acceptable to the Assistant Secretary of Labor, and therefore approved within the meaning of this subpart.

Acceptable. An installation or equipment is acceptable to the Assistant Secretary of Labor, and approved within the meaning of this Subpart S:

(1) If it is accepted, or certified, or listed, or labeled, or otherwise determined to be safe by a nationally recognized testing laboratory recognized pursuant to ? 1910.7; or

(2) With respect to an installation or equipment of a kind that no nationally recognized testing laboratory accepts, certifies, lists, labels, or determines to be safe, if it is inspected or tested by another Federal agency, or by a State, municipal, or other local authority responsible for enforcing occupational safety provisions of the National Electrical Code, and found in compliance with the provisions of the National Electrical Code as applied in this subpart; or

(3) With respect to custom-made equipment or related installations that are designed, fabricated for, and intended for use by a particular customer, if it is determined to be safe for its intended use by its manufacturer on the basis of test data which the employer keeps and makes available for inspection to the Assistant Secretary and his authorized representatives.

Accepted. An installation is "accepted" if it has been inspected and found by a nationally recognized testing laboratory to conform to specified plans or to procedures of applicable codes.

The definitions from 1910.399 are not in actual Section order, but I think they make a bit more sense this way.

Section 1910.303(a) is pretty standard jargon.

I love the 1910.399 definition of Approved - it leaves no doubt who the AHJ is.

Acceptable is the key term. If you read the three subparts carefully, you will see that it essentially says that if something can be ??accepted, or certified, or listed, or labeled, or otherwise determined to be safe by a nationally recognized testing laboratory ?? it must be. Only when ??an installation or equipment of a kind that no nationally recognized testing laboratory accepts, certifies, lists, labels, or determines to be safe?? is alternate (2) or (3) permitted. Even then, alternate (3) is only permitted if (2) doesn?t result in a disapproval.

Very few installations are truly ?OSHA ?free?, even residential. As long as an employer/employee relationship ? no matter how tenuous ? can be attached to an installation, Fed or a State OSHA can technically claim jurisdiction. The fact that they don?t more often is a matter of available resources, not authority.

 

[roger]

I usually avoid these discussions, but we sometimes forget there is another AHJ out there besides the local authorities. From 29CFR:The definitions from 1910.399 are not in actual Section order, but I think they make a bit more sense this way.

Section 1910.303(a) is pretty standard jargon.

I love the 1910.399 definition of Approved - it leaves no doubt who the AHJ is.

Acceptable is the key term. If you read the three subparts carefully, you will see that it essentially says that if something can be ??accepted, or certified, or listed, or labeled, or otherwise determined to be safe by a nationally recognized testing laboratory ?? it must be. Only when ??an installation or equipment of a kind that no nationally recognized testing laboratory accepts, certifies, lists, labels, or determines to be safe?? is alternate (2) or (3) permitted. Even then, alternate (3) is only permitted if (2) doesn?t result in a disapproval.

Very few installations are truly ?OSHA ?free?, even residential. As long as an employer/employee relationship ? no matter how tenuous ? can be attached to an installation, Fed or a State OSHA can technically claim jurisdiction. The fact that they don?t more often is a matter of available resources, not authority.

So in summary you said what?

Roger

 

[rbalex]

If can be listed - it must be

 

[sameguy]

U.L. listed means the Co. is on a list with U.L. to have the item looked at.
U.L. approved means it was looked at and satisfactory.
From what I was told years ago; maybe you could get on the list if your planning on making your own box; cost
might be prohibitive however.

 

[Andybob007]

I have read thru all the comments and it appears to me that there is not a clear cut answer. It appears that it is truly interpertation of the code. Even though a AHJ might tell you that it is his opinion, he would have to back that up by having the code they have adopted in that city. Any requirements above and beyond that code would also have to be documented and adopted. I am not sure that I have any answer that suits me yet.

 

[augie47]

My opinion is 90.4 holds your answer.
Overlooking the fact that OSHA may have the duty of Final "Approval"
90.4 seems to give the local jurisdiction (AHJ) the "responsibility for ...deciding on the approval of equipment and materials". If the AHJ in the particular job has adopted a policy of requiring NRTL listing and/or labeling for j boxes then that is the procedure necessary.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

U.L. listed means the Co. is on a list with U.L. to have the item looked at.
U.L. approved means it was looked at and satisfactory.
From what I was told years ago; maybe you could get on the list if your planning on making your own box; cost
might be prohibitive however.

That is not correct. UL listed means it has been evaluated by UL to a UL or ANSI standard. UL does not approve anything.