remove circuit from panel

[jetlag]

I have a location with a 200a outside 4 space disconnect. 2 of the spaces are for a 100a breaker that services the inside panel. The load calculation for the small apartment is right on 100 a . The 100a breaker trips ocasionally. The apartment is total electric. I am wondering what is is best thing to remove from the inside panel and connect to the 2 other spaces on the outside disconnect ? The dryer, 5 kw heat , 1.5 ton heat pump, water heater , all pull aprox the same av 18 amp . the range would pull more depending on how many burners were on . Even though the range might pull more, I am thinking the heat pump might be best to move since If breaker is on the verge of tripping the starting load for compressor might be more likely to cause a trip. Any ideas ?

 

[Volta]

I think the heat pump is the way to go, for a cost-effective repair. Short of installing a second panel inside for future loads, your plan sounds good for now.

 

[tkb]

I would move the water heater since it is used the most all year long.

 

[jetlag]

thanks volta

thanks volta

I think the heat pump is the way to go, for a cost-effective repair. Short of installing a second panel inside for future loads, your plan sounds good for now.

actually i am the one that installed the 200 a service when I had to replace the old damaged meter base that had no disconnect. I knew this would give a way to take some load off inside panel . And I believe the heat pump will be plenty of relief for the inside panel.

 

[jetlag]

Thanks tkb

Thanks tkb

I would move the water heater since it is used the most all year long.

Thats a good point , I am hoping the posts will help me decide, I probably could remove any one one the 240v circuits to solve the problem. It only trips once every month or 2

 

[Volta]

Thats a good point , I am hoping the posts will help me decide, I probably could remove any one one the 240v circuits to solve the problem. It only trips once every month or 2

Yes, Tim does have a good idea with the regular use, but with your calcs, I assume that the tripping happens when 'everything' is running, and we might expect the heat pump to run for longer periods than the dryer or WH.

I also assume that you rechecked the bus/breaker and breaker/wire connections.
Also noting that a balanced panel gets to be important when running at the max.
If one leg is carrying 99 amps, and the other is 79, there is further room for improvement.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I vote heat pump. It has a high startup amp. Is another choice and that is add a hard start cap to the compresser. And depending on its age might go for a higher seer. Very likely removing any of the loads would help. Are you sure the connections are not simply loose or breaker bit old. I would look at easy way for what ever item you pick. Your profile does not mention your location or size of building. If up north heating load might be issue because heat pumps change over to heat strips in mid 30's

 

[readydave8]

I'd pick water heater because it runs year round, resistance is heating up breaker more than a motor start would. Unless it only trips in winter, then heat pump. (Or if it only trips when heat pump comes on)

 

[jetlag]

I vote heat pump. It has a high startup amp. Is another choice and that is add a hard start cap to the compresser. And depending on its age might go for a higher seer. Very likely removing any of the loads would help. Are you sure the connections are not simply loose or breaker bit old. I would look at easy way for what ever item you pick. Your profile does not mention your location or size of building. If up north heating load might be issue because heat pumps change over to heat strips in mid 30's

Its in Georgia , so winter not that severe, it is 4 duplex apt buildings each unit only 850 sg ft. , the heat pumps are new , every thing has been checked. Other units trip sometime but none very often. I think the 100a is right on the border line if most things happen to be on at one time. Of course thats not often and I doubt all burners are being used on range. I have only installed the 200a service to one building, I have seperate meter, riser,and disc. for each side. You see at one time they had gas heat and water heater. Im sure the problem started when they removed the gas.

 

[cadpoint]

The water heater can be disabled with a timer, I've had one for years, it is a moderate pain to remember to go look at it with the yearly time changes.

You might also consider a smart thermostat.

My personal feeling is that you didn't do a load summary (based on CODE requirements) since there is an "apartment involved"(which wasn't clear in the OP). I didn't know that one could load a 100 amp panel to 100%.

I'll vote Oven, and kitchen circuits to the 200 AMP...

PS: gads, more information....

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Maybe it be cheaper to go back to gas water heaters. I am giving lot of thinking to going to gas for our 2 dryers and water heater and perhaps hot tub. Because of our entertaining on Saturday nights i am running into problem with only 200 amp service. Gas is far cheaper than the bull to up my service to a 320 meter. Does anyone have any sites to compare the cost of propane over electric for things like dryers and water heaters. Do now have gas heater for pool table area and hot tub area and that took 11kw off my service

 

[erickench]

I assume that the 100 A circuit breaker is for a branch circuit. Why not follow NEC 210.11(C)(2) and install a 20 A circuit breaker for the laundry? You can feed the dryer off this new branch circuit.

 

[readydave8]

Maybe it be cheaper to go back to gas water heaters. I am giving lot of thinking to going to gas for our 2 dryers and water heater and perhaps hot tub. Because of our entertaining on Saturday nights i am running into problem with only 200 amp service. Gas is far cheaper than the bull to up my service to a 320 meter. Does anyone have any sites to compare the cost of propane over electric for things like dryers and water heaters. Do now have gas heater for pool table area and hot tub area and that took 11kw off my service

I had my propane tank filled last week, came to $3.77 per gallon with taxes and fees. 212 gallons=$800. When I called to complain they knocked off .60 per gallon with very little argument. So I only paid way more instead of way way more.

 

[TOOL_5150]

Maybe it be cheaper to go back to gas water heaters. I am giving lot of thinking to going to gas for our 2 dryers and water heater and perhaps hot tub. Because of our entertaining on Saturday nights i am running into problem with only 200 amp service. Gas is far cheaper than the bull to up my service to a 320 meter. Does anyone have any sites to compare the cost of propane over electric for things like dryers and water heaters. Do now have gas heater for pool table area and hot tub area and that took 11kw off my service

200A isnt enough for your parties huh? Can I come next saturday? :grin:

~Matt

 

[Hendrix]

Maybe it be cheaper to go back to gas water heaters. I am giving lot of thinking to going to gas for our 2 dryers and water heater and perhaps hot tub. Because of our entertaining on Saturday nights i am running into problem with only 200 amp service. Gas is far cheaper than the bull to up my service to a 320 meter. Does anyone have any sites to compare the cost of propane over electric for things like dryers and water heaters. Do now have gas heater for pool table area and hot tub area and that took 11kw off my service

The tankless heaters are great. I just put a Rennai in my house after 30 years of electric and it's quite a savings. Plus a tax credit.

 

[G0049]

Maybe it be cheaper to go back to gas water heaters.

No, I think it would be cheaper to move the pool table and hot tub. Like, to my place, maybe.

 

[jetlag]

Did load summary

Did load summary

The water heater can be disabled with a timer, I've had one for years, it is a moderate pain to remember to go look at it with the yearly time changes.

You might also consider a smart thermostat.

My personal feeling is that you didn't do a load summary (based on CODE requirements) since there is an "apartment involved"(which wasn't clear in the OP). I didn't know that one could load a 100 amp panel to 100%.

I'll vote Oven, and kitchen circuits to the 200 AMP...

PS: gads, more information....

I did load summary by code and it comes out 98 amp. There are things you get to derate like heat strips at 65 % . If every thing possible came on at one time it would be a lots more than 100 amps. That is not saying the box will be loaded to 98a it is just the required service size.

 

[jetlag]

huh

huh

I assume that the 100 A circuit breaker is for a branch circuit. Why not follow NEC 210.11(C)(2) and install a 20 A circuit breaker for the laundry? You can feed the dryer off this new branch circuit.

Im not following you, the 100a breaker is in the outside 200a disc. It feeds the main and only sub panel in the house.. Feed the dryer off a 20amp laundry circuit? The dryer needs a 30a 240 circuit.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

200A isnt enough for your parties huh? Can I come next saturday? :grin:

~Matt

I often have 70 to 90 people. In summer time i have total of about 18 tons of AC (yes ouch)
Only need it from 8 PM till 2 AM, now add to that a water heater 4.5 kw, Hot Tub 5 KW, 5 crock pots (on warm), 1 freezer to keep 100 lbs of ice, 2 normal frigs, 5 computers ,lots of yard lights, security cams, DJ booth, lights for striper pole and dance floor, exhaust fans for smoke, water pump, 2 mr coffee makers popcorn maker,general lights for 3600 sf. Only thing saving me is that washers and dryers ,range, cooktop are not needed. Had major problem month ago, i triped the 200. Actually with meter hit highs at 174 and a few peaks over that. Heating the one area 500 sf was taking 11kw. Propane heater solved that load. Looking to maybe get water heater off of electric. Yea JIM throws killer parties LOL. Usually food , soft drinks, ice alone is $200.

Tankless gas water heater might be a winner if not too costly.
I don't care about cost of electric for a few hours but do care about pushing my load that high.

 

[erickench]

Im not following you, the 100a breaker is in the outside 200a disc. It feeds the main and only sub panel in the house.. Feed the dryer off a 20amp laundry circuit? The dryer needs a 30a 240 circuit.

If that's the case then the dryer should have an individual branch circuit ahead of the 100 A circuit breaker. You do have an additional 100 amps to spare don't you?