Not Sure about it.

[growler]

Ran into an interesting problem the other day. A prospective customer has a 300 Amp sevice that needs some work. Another contractor did a service up-grade some time ago ( about a year ). This house has power and the meter is sealed but things don't look right to me. I think that there are a few more violations than would normally be let slide to get a final on a service up-grade so I call to see if there was a final on this job. The final had failed on the job and the power was only on because of a temp power release and the permit was still open.

The problem is this, " what do you do now"? The contractor that did the work is a real butt head and doesn't want to finish the job and the customer doesn't want him around because he threatened the customer with physical violence ( I talked to the EC and he sounds like a nut case ). I called the inspection department to find out why power is still on a year later with only a temp power release ( longest temp release around here is 90 days ) and they don't seem very interested in the problem.

I don't really want to touch the equipment because the minute I touch it this lets the original contractor off the hook because he can say things have been tampered with. He still has an open permit and no one really has a right to do anything.

I just told the homeowner he doesn't really need to pay me to work on the problem because he has already paid for an install and since it hasn't been finaled then the warranty hasn't started yet and I think the original contractor should be forced to complete his job in the correct manner and make the install safe. My idea was for the homeowner to call for a final on the job and let the inspector see this mess and let him explain why power is on. There is a breakdown in the system, somewhere.

Any ideas or is this just one for the courts to decide?

PS : I hate contractors like this because they give the whole industry a bad name.

 

[augie47]

The homeowner doesn't want the original contractor back and seems to be agreeable with paying you for whatever repairs are needed.
I would arrange to meet with the homeowner and inspector to make sure the HO undertsands you are making the required repairs just to cover the bases and to allow the original permit to be closed.

 

[growler]

The homeowner doesn't want the original contractor back and seems to be agreeable with paying you for whatever repairs are needed.

Actually I was being a bit generous when I said the original EC would need to finish his work it would be more like he would need to start all over again and this time do it right.

An Example: He cut three studs in a row out of an outside load bearing wall in the basement to make room to mount panels with no header to support this span. The structural integrety of the house has been compromised ( I guess he was thinking that sheetrock would cover it and no one would ever know but there is no sheetrock). This would need to be repaired which would mean removing the panels or rerouting the cable.

The homeowner doesn't really understand how big of a mess he really has because the power company did hook up power and for some reason it's still on. He was under the impression that once power was on that everything had been completed so he paid the original contractor ( a temp power release is something that most homeowners are not familiar with, the lights are on so the job must be finished ). Many people really don't understand the inspection process.

The homeowner is not even sure that he wants to get a final inspection( or needs one) because the power is on now and if it is seen by the inspection department he thinks it may be cut off for a time. After all they are like 9 months past the 90 days for a temp power release ( this has been expired for some time and no one has noticed ). If the power company ever does notice that a final has not been passed and they don't have the correct paperwork I think they will cut the power but who really knows for sure.

By the way the service is just the tip of the iceberg, the basement is pretty much finished with no rough inspection being passed.

The homeowner has a dilemma, maybe no one will ever notice if he leaves things as the are but the farther he goes without correcting the problem the the worse it gets if they do notice. It's like having a skunk living in the basement, you don't want him there but if you try and get him to leave he may get upset and we know what that means.

At least he has learned that a low ball price is not always the best way to go.

OK how do the folks in other parts of the county handle it when a temporary power release has expired? Just leave the power on and say nothing or does the POCO actually cut the power unless a final has been passed. It really is an illegal hook up once the temp power release has expired.

 

[AV ELECTRIC]

Its time to call Holmes on homes and make it wright . There seems to be a lot of deficiency's here .This sounds like the proverbial tangled web . If the other contractor does not want to make it wright he would be liable but if the homeowner does not give him the opportunity to complete the job and get it inspected I think the owner is financially out of luck . From what your saying I would give a price for a complete re due and tack on a few extra dollars. , This situation could get you involved in legal proceedings. If the owner or contractor files suit and they may want you to appear in court of course you will not be paid for your time. As far as keeping the power on i have seen temporary setups on for years I guess if there getting paid there happy.

 

[nizak]

I can see that you take pride in your work and are thorough and want to do whats right. My suggesstion would be (unless you are extremely in need of work) walk away from the situation and leave it up to the owner to sort out. Are you able to charge for any of the "leg work" your putting into this so far?

 

[One-eyed Jack]

That is why I hate that a provision for temp power has been included. The inspection dept has failed to do their job. We follow up on temp. power and if it goes past the allotted time we call the Poco and notify the owner that it is going to be lights OUT. We give them a time frame ONE TIME. No further notice . Some have called our "Bluff" so they thought. When the lights went out they became Very,Very,Very co-operative. Bottom line in your case,walk away or be prepared to report everything to the Code Officials Board. Things will change really fast after that. Your list of enemies will get larger.

 

[Cavie]

Building department needs to step in and pull the contractors license untill the work in repaired and passes inspection. That is the reason for permits and inspections. Homeowner need to call a lawyer.

 

[satcom]

Building department needs to step in and pull the contractors license untill the work in repaired and passes inspection. That is the reason for permits and inspections. Homeowner need to call a lawyer.

Yes, the homeowner really needs an attorney to sort this mess out. Just wondering did the homeowner have a written contract with the contractor spelling out the work to be done?

 

[growler]

Yes, the homeowner really needs an attorney to sort this mess out. Just wondering did the homeowner have a written contract with the contractor spelling out the work to be done?

NO contract and when the owner called he was looking for the invoice. I naturally thought that he may not have paid the electrician and this was the problem but I called this so called EC and he admitted to being paid ( all his money ). There was a great deal of friction between the electrician and the homeowner. He took the job cheap and didn't know what he was doing as far as cost goes and didn't have the money to do a proper job. Even the homeowner admits the guy was working way to cheap but giving a cheap price is no excuse for not finishing. If you are dumb enough to bid to cheap then you just lose some money.

I really think that this guy isn't even licensed and is useing someone else's license and bond to get permits but I really don't want to invest the time to find out if I'm not on the clock.

I think the bad economy is even making things worse than normal because everyone is looking to save a few dollars and there are so many electricians out of work and willing to take chances just to make a few dollars and it's creating a real mess ( even worse than normal ).

 

[Sparky555]

I've had similar situations and I quote the complete repair (absolutely no patch jobs). If the price works out to $15 or $20k I lay the contract in front of the homeowner and let them decide. They either have me fix it or not, but when I'm done it's ready for inspection.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

The homeowner doesn't want the original contractor back and seems to be agreeable with paying you for whatever repairs are needed.
I would arrange to meet with the homeowner and inspector to make sure the HO undertsands you are making the required repairs just to cover the bases and to allow the original permit to be closed.

I've had similar situations and I quote the complete repair (absolutely no patch jobs). If the price works out to $15 or $20k I lay the contract in front of the homeowner and let them decide. They either have me fix it or not, but when I'm done it's ready for inspection.

IMO, you do this and either fix it or move on. Good luck.

 

[220/221]

Here, I'd set up a meeting with both the registrar of contractors and a city inspector.

They are both probably going to require the HO to allow the EC an opportunity to correct his work.

If the corrections aren't made in a reasonable time frame the HO would be free to hire someone else and go after the original EC for reimbursement.

 

[480sparky]

Could the original EC's bond be used to pay for the corrections?

 

[brantmacga]

Building department needs to step in and pull the contractors license untill the work in repaired and passes inspection. That is the reason for permits and inspections. Homeowner need to call a lawyer.

Since licenses are issued by the state, a local AHJ can't have them revoked.

I'm not sure if they can legally stop you from working in that area either; never had to deal with that.


Only thing you can do is file a complaint w/ the state, and 2-3 years down the road they'll call the contractor in front of the board.

Sadly, from what I've read at the sec. of state's website in the board minutes, it seems you can pay a $500 fine and walk out unscathed.

I've yet to read one where a license was pulled for malfeasance, except when the contractor could not not pay the fine. But once they have the money in hand, you're back in business.

 

[Cavie]

Since licenses are issued by the state, a local AHJ can't have them revoked.

I'm not sure if they can legally stop you from working in that area either; never had to deal with that.


Only thing you can do is file a complaint w/ the state, and 2-3 years down the road they'll call the contractor in front of the board.

Sadly, from what I've read at the sec. of state's website in the board minutes, it seems you can pay a $500 fine and walk out unscathed.

I've yet to read one where a license was pulled for malfeasance, except when the contractor could not not pay the fine. But once they have the money in hand, you're back in business.

In Florida, Local AHJ very much has a say in what you can do and not do. They can pull your ticket to work in their area. They pull you in front of the local board first, pull your license in that town then report you to the State.They can call the State board and report your actions. Florida has big fines and penelties for screw ups.

 

[growler]

Only thing you can do is file a complaint w/ the state, and 2-3 years down the road they'll call the contractor in front of the board.

Brant I'm not even sure a complaint could be filed with the board. He did get a permit for the work. He did get the power turned on ( temp power) and it's still on. The permit is still open but he hasn't gotten a final.

It may have been a year but what can you say about the guy? He's really slow? Hasn't been on the job for awhile? Doubt if there is a rule against getting paid before a final inspection. Once there is an inspection then the inspectors can right up any violations that they find.

The only thing I can figure out is that the AHJ could get the power turned off because the Temp power release is a long time expired which would prompt the homeowner to take some sort of civil action. I'm not even sure the homeowner is in a good position without a contract.

I told the homeowner to go ahead and call for an inspection and let the inspection department have a look at it. If the EC doesn't want to finish the job or come to some sort of an arrangment then 480sparky is probably right and his bond money could be used to correct any problems.

I didn't want to touch anything because I don't want to end up in the middle of a real mess that may well end up in court. I'm not all that sure that the original EC couldn't sue someone for tampering with his work while it's still under his permit and not closed out ( he may file a complaint with the board against whomever messes with his job ). If nothing else that would let him off the hook.

If the homeowner doesn't call again I'll just forget about this little mess and move on to bigger and better problems. I just thought this was an interesting conundrum ( and a darn good change to use a new word :grin::grin.

 

[Cavie]

Could the original EC's bond be used to pay for the corrections?

Bond?? If there was a bond, it could be used after charges were brought before the local board and the contractor refused to fix or pay.

 

[wawireguy]

Why worry about the other electricians permit? Pull your permit and do whatever work under it you need to do. Get your work inspected and keep truckin.

 

[growler]

Why worry about the other electricians permit?

It's not a worry it's a requirement. There can only be one permit issued for a given job at a given time. It could get very confusing if they started to issue permits to different contractors at the same time to do the same work.

 

[Cavie]

Why worry about the other electricians permit? Pull your permit and do whatever work under it you need to do. Get your work inspected and keep truckin.

There is an open permit on the address. No second permit will be issued. Owner could not even sell house if the Bd is doing its job correctly. Title insurance check should cetch it. Present permit will have to be renewed with more $$ after X amount of days. Damaged studs could also cause insurance issues with the home owner if he tries to make a claim in the future. Homeowner need to get this issue fixed.