A question about resumes

[sw_ross]

I am working on updating my resume and have a question that might be a matter of opinion. I would specifically like to hear responses from EC's that have experience with hiring, but am also interested in hearing from anybody that has experience with resumes.

I have about five years experience in the electrical field. I went through my four year apprenticeship, and have had my license for about one year. I did well in all my apprenticeship classes. I'm forty-five, so I kind of got a late start in this line of work, but I really enjoy what I do.

I have a varied background previous to getting involved in the electrical field. Some of it construction related, some of it not. I'm working on my resume since work has slowed up a little.

I'm going to start showing it to some other EC's in my area. The question I have is whether to include all my background that is non-related to the electrical field. I have no problem filling up two pages just promoting my electrical background and experiences. I feel that to include all my background would either make my resume fairly long and drawn out, or I would have to cut into what I've described in my electrical experience section.

Everything I've read and learned over the years about resumes are that they are mainly a brief advertising tool to get a prospective employer interested in you and wanting to learn more about you and your abilities (thereby asking you to interview).

I had one Master Electrician I know in my area tell me I need to include all my previous experiences, especially non-electrical related. It lets a prospective employer know about the evolution of all your knowledge, skills, and abilities - regardless of how long it makes your resume. This seems a little different than everything I've learned elsewhere.

I'm picturing a possible employer looking at my resume and really only wanting to know about my electrical knowledge, skills, and abilities. In other words, what will I be able to contribute to his business.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.
Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Sky

 

[petersonra]

I don't think there is a good general answer to this question.

As you noted, resumes are about getting the guy to notice you enough that you get a little more attention than the next guy.

Most people strongly suggest keeping the resumes to a single page, although its not always the best choice for every situation. You do not want to force a busy guy who is wading through a stack of resumes to have to read through a lot of stuff he does not have time to look at.

I doubt anyone looking for someone with experience is going to care what grades you got in school all that much, or that you worked at McDonalds for a year or two in high school, especially not at the resume stage. He probably is familiar with the apprenticeship program and knows what is involved, so a short (maybe 2 or 3 sentences) summary is about all I would put in. You don't want to leave huge holes in your work history though, because that's a big red flag to everyone.

It helps if you know who is doing the filtering. If the potential candidates are being filtered by HR, the important thing is to get past their screening. HR people rarely have any skills or knowledge in any of the fields they are recruiting for so they are more impressed by mostly certificates and grades.

Keep on mind that very few positions are filled via the resume process. Most job openings are filled via networking.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Even before I ran my own business, I ran maintence departments for two different large factories. There is no simple answer to this. I've hired plenty of people and here are some examples:



1) Guy came in applying for mechanic position. He had a stack of certifications with him 1 & 1/2" thick. Certs.of rebuilding CAT motors, diesel cert., forkliftcerts. The list was endless His employment record was impressive, worked for some big name companies.


2) Guy came applying for a mechanics position. His ENTIRE background was putting together metal buidings. From the slab to the roof, that's all he had ever done. But he was honest



I hired guy #2. He had a much better attitude, polite, well spoken, willing to learn. In the end, he worked with us for 5 more years before the whole company shut down. He was for ever and ever in my memory, the absolute best help I had ever hired. He could learn/do anything he tried. 100% satisfied.


My point is you are what seas the deal, not your resume. On the resume, I would list your last 5 or six years eerience in electrical, then on an interview, you could throw in there other things you're good at. You'll do fine

 

[zog]

Someone with your experince should have asingle page resume, you can include a brief history of your other experience but keep it short at focused to the job you are trying to get.

Resume gets you an interview, interview gets you the job.

 

[AV ELECTRIC]

I consider your resume a list of your qualifications for the job you are being interviewed for ( what can you do ). It may need to be fine tuned for every job you apply for.List the type of work you have done and how long you have done it for. All construction work should be put on if applicable . say for instance concrete where you might be able to install the concrete and re bar for parking lot lights. Anything to get you an advantage over the next guy. Your employment schedule can be put on your application form . Keep it simple and direct.

 

[cadpoint]

After you fine tune your electrical resume you might consider, making two or three more. These would be directed resumes.
These might be were you change your resume to closely match the job opening, just a thought

Commerical Electricain, verse the control guy, etc., etc.

One could do this in the opening lines of your resume, I'm seeking "X" position,
next resume I"m seeking "Y" employment, and the bulk of the resume remains unchanged.

I'm sure you've been all over the i-net resume looking at this stuff but here is a nice link to Older Worker’s Resume—50+ Resume since your older and close to getting into that age of some of us older guys... :roll:

 

[sw_ross]

Thanks, it sounds like my thoughts are being somewhat confirmed. I might go back previous to my electrical career a little - as it is construction related and might help in drawing some attention to my abilities.

As mentioned, I feel that the resume is only a medium to get my foot in the door and maybe draw some attention to myself (something I'm not normally keen on doing). It's probably what takes place after that moment that determines whether I get the job (i.e. networking, interviewing, etc.).

I'm not good at selling myself - I don't appreciate people who brag up their abilities and have an ego about what they can do, so I'm extra critical about how I handle myself in this regard. I think this trait is a weak point when it comes to networking and interviewing.

I know I have good grades (In apprenticeship classes), have a good work ethic, fairly well rounded experience level (residential, commercial, and some industrial). But I feel if I brag up these experiences too much a prospective employer might get turned off, or might have expectations that I might not be able to meet.

For example, I've had experience installing feeders, transformer, and panel, from a 600v 3 phase generator to a 600v - 208Y/120v transformer that fed a panel and then fed to a 25hp blower motor. This was great experience for me (during my second year of apprenticeship), but it scares me to talk this experience up too much on my resume because of the thought of someone hiring me thinking I'm an expert on generators, transformer, and motors - which I'm not.

I guess my fear (in many aspects of my life) is not being able to meet expectations that others have of me, and this is a weakness that I have to overcome when it comes to seeking out a new employer.

If someone wants to critic my current rough-draft resume send me a pm with your email and I'll email it to you.

 

[AV ELECTRIC]

I understand you want to stay humble. I don't appreciate flashy, think they know everything and have an answer for everything you don't have to sugar coat things but you don't have to play it down just tell it like it is.If its an established company they will be able to weed through the garbage new company's can get the wool pulled over there face at times .Give them the best parts of you and you will do great.

 

[e57]

IMO a cover letter is key... Short - direct and specific to the company you are applying to.... The actual resume is much more a list... Education - employment history... Not including previous or non-trade work may make it look like you have a spotty employment history... And likewise - somethings may be beneficial to employment - For instance I was a Warehouse Foreman way before I was in the trade, and while it is not 'electrical related' reinforces other items on my resume, as I have had foreman and supervisor type roles very early in my electrical career in part due to that.

I too am out looking now.... My current resume is being re-vamped to the Cover Letter, Resume (education/work history chronology), and a separate sheet titled 'Supplemental Information' - describing highlights of that in more functional detail, with other references.

What sucks as of late - is I get interviews with people who are not even looking to hire ANYONE and could not afford me if the were. But either find my resume fascinating, or want to pick my brain about their competition (my previous employers) or both. While it is not a complete waste of my time - it still is....

 

[cadpoint]

IMO a cover letter is key... Short - direct and specific to the company you are applying to....

I'm talking about electricians here!

Well I sorta agree, but then I don't agree with a cover letter, 40-60 no, it's not required. If it's a national or regional power house, then yes. I don't think so if your going to a solo owner, it will almost look like to much.

Besides were all rough neck's for the most part, yes if they see a resume like your's; I can see why they want to talk to you. Brain drain, I got the Tee shirt!

If your resume is packed correctly it will do, if your going to be an Office Person, then the offical cover letter, yes... Most people can't fill up two pages with their resume, A cover letter and a single sheet, might just do...

Books and How "2's" tell everyone to send a Letter and a resume, well they also state that you have 5 minutes or less to deliever the goods (your message).

Good Luck!

 

[e57]

I'm talking about electricians here!

Well I sorta agree, but then I don't agree with a cover letter, 40-60 no, it's not required. If it's a national or regional power house, then yes. I don't think so if your going to a solo owner, it will almost look like to much.

Besides were all rough neck's for the most part, yes if they see a resume like your's; I can see why they want to talk to you. Brain drain, I got the Tee shirt!

If your resume is packed correctly it will do, if your going to be an Office Person, then the offical cover letter, yes... Most people can't fill up two pages with their resume, A cover letter and a single sheet, might just do...

Books and How "2's" tell everyone to send a Letter and a resume, well they also state that you have 5 minutes or less to deliever the goods (your message).

Good Luck!

So am I - One thing I have learned is often your resume is not picked by the owner or someone with even any field experience - but screened by some controller or office slave tasked with calling the companies you've worked for before you even get past go for an interview. (at least with anything bigger than a mom/pop shop) Without a cover letter - it might just be trashed right there. Then they might be handed off to someone who might see some value in what is actually there. That person might ask the office slave to schedule an interview, and maybe that person is smart enough to test what you say you know... Most are not... They hardly ask tough questions and wonder why most of the people they hire - suck.. Or that they've been BS'ed. *

Granted I'm not in the market for a grunt JW job - the job I seek is Foreman, or PM a job requiring communication skills - written and oral. And the ability to not just recognize contractual agreements and specification, but understand them, and act on them accordingly. Someone who should know what a cover letter looks like.

*I'm a firm believer in testing the interviewee on at least basic skills and knowledge.

 

[macmikeman]

I never wrote myself a resume yet. Lord help me if I ever get to the place where I have to sit down and try. Used to be we just filled out an application and that had about 3 lines for places you had worked at.

 

[petersonra]

I was at a customer site a few weeks ago and watched about 10 chemical plant operator candidates come in for their five minute interview for 2 open positions.

I was totally unimpressed with the fact that every last one of them showed up in a suit. They looked (and probably felt) out of their element. No one in a chemical plant wears a tie, much less a suit.

A nice pair of work type pants and shirt, and appropriate shoes would have been far better IMO. That way if the interviewer wanted to, he could feel comfortable taking the candidate on a tour of the plant. Not real likely to invite someone wearing a suit on a plant tour.

 

[fondini]

I guess I am old-fashioned on this, I look at the resume for the Journeyman qualification, the person for the rest. I have had guys spend an hour telling me how great they are, but when they shake my hand its as smooth as a babys butt. I even had a guy show up with his pants half way down his rear-end. Sorry,guys that work have calloused hands, and if you cant pull your pants up, you cant represent the company to the customer in a professional manner. I have even had a guy who couldn't make the entire interview without dropping the f bomb. Wow. Please show me confidece and a civil tounge when interviewing.

 

[WastefulMiser]

What does the W in JW mean? Journeyman worker, eh? I see it all the time here. Some things you can't Google.

 

[e57]

I've told this story before - but its fitting... And I'll remember it for the rest of my life...

I worked for a bunch of brothers, the company owner would take your application to review while you filled out a fill-in-the-dots code and general knowledge question test. Then you went in for the interview, then out to the shop to bend a stick or two of 1/2" EMT - while he 'corrected' the test you took...

I did this when I was hired... 2 90's two off-sets... One stick - no cuts or couplings.

One day I was dropping off paper work, and saw a guy at the table taking the test... So I offered some words of encouragement, I tell him he even made his brothers take this test - he did... And went in to talk to the boss... He's all smiles and says "This ones gonna be good - just hang out in here..." The guy comes in with the test, and I go out and talk to the secretary... Then they come out, and he's brought out to the shop for the bender test.... Simple: two boxes one a wall the other on a low ceiling with a bunch of holes where other guys have done the same - just put a stick or two between them. There's probably 20-30 ways you could go about it... You get two fresh sticks, a tape measure, bender, hacksaw - every fitting you could ever use... And you're left alone there - "Just come get me when you're done..." :roll:

So the boss grabs me and says come in the office and he's snickering - he opens this cabinet and there's a TV there - and video of the shop... I had no idea it was there... He said it has been there the whole time I worked there and he watched me... (The camera is in plain veiw - but you'd never look for it where it is...)

So theres the guy: And we're going over his little test which is completely blown... He grabs a stick and botches a 90 - cuts it off... Tries again, botches it. Cuts it off. Gets a decent 90, then blows the off-set - folds it - sticks it all under the bosses truck... (me and the boss are trying to contain ourselves...) Goes up in his conduit carrier - pulls out another stick - tries again. Blows it - drops the bender and walks out.... Boss: "SEE - now there is a guy I don't have to try to fire in a month..." Said he wanted $30 an hour....

 

[Ohmy]

Resume issues that I find (I look at a lot) are spelling, gaps in employment history, no contact information, and unrelated experience.

A good resume has

1. Current and Accurate contact information at the top
2. Detailed work experience
3. Contact information for previous three employers
4. List of qualifications and licenses
5. Education history
6. Spell check (I am a horrible speller, but you have to get this right)

If you want to put interest, about you stuff, or specialties do it in a narrative on a separate piece of paper as an introduction.

 

[Ohmy]

I've told this story before - but its fitting... And I'll remember it for the rest of my life...

I worked for a bunch of brothers, the company owner would take your application to review while you filled out a fill-in-the-dots code and general knowledge question test. Then you went in for the interview, then out to the shop to bend a stick or two of 1/2" EMT - while he 'corrected' the test you took...

I did this when I was hired... 2 90's two off-sets... One stick - no cuts or couplings.

One day I was dropping off paper work, and saw a guy at the table taking the test... So I offered some words of encouragement, I tell him he even made his brothers take this test - he did... And went in to talk to the boss... He's all smiles and says "This ones gonna be good - just hang out in here..." The guy comes in with the test, and I go out and talk to the secretary... Then they come out, and he's brought out to the shop for the bender test.... Simple: two boxes one a wall the other on a low ceiling with a bunch of holes where other guys have done the same - just put a stick or two between them. There's probably 20-30 ways you could go about it... You get two fresh sticks, a tape measure, bender, hacksaw - every fitting you could ever use... And you're left alone there - "Just come get me when you're done..." :roll:

So the boss grabs me and says come in the office and he's snickering - he opens this cabinet and there's a TV there - and video of the shop... I had no idea it was there... He said it has been there the whole time I worked there and he watched me... (The camera is in plain veiw - but you'd never look for it where it is...)

So theres the guy: And we're going over his little test which is completely blown... He grabs a stick and botches a 90 - cuts it off... Tries again, botches it. Cuts it off. Gets a decent 90, then blows the off-set - folds it - sticks it all under the bosses truck... (me and the boss are trying to contain ourselves...) Goes up in his conduit carrier - pulls out another stick - tries again. Blows it - drops the bender and walks out.... Boss: "SEE - now there is a guy I don't have to try to fire in a month..." Said he wanted $30 an hour....

Bending pipe is an art. I would totally be that guy.

 

[zog]

Bending pipe is an art. I would totally be that guy.

Me too. First job interview (for an electrician job in a steel mill) I had comming out of the navy they gave me a written test on electrical theory, aced it, then an oral interview with some T/S problems and more theory because they thought I cheated on the test, aced it. Then they gave me a similar task bending pipe, I had never seen a pipe bender in my life, did not even know what it was.

The informed me I was not qualified for the position, and offered me an engineering job.

 

[e57]

Bending pipe is an art. I would totally be that guy.

No it is a skill... Painting is a skill, painting the Mona Lisa is art. Putting a stick of conduit between two boxes is a skill. Making it into the profile of the Taj Mahal - that would be art - but hardly functional.

And if you honest - and say "I can't bend pipe" - someone can teach you... Try to BS your way past that - only makes you a liar....