using scrap wire

[roger]

Do you put that in your Quote/Proposal that if needed you will splice conductors in an attic or crawl so that you can use up left over cable ??

Nope, I don't make mention of it because I don't actually know how I will do the installation until I get to that point.

Let me ask you something, if you are using conduit and you have more than 360 degrees of bend in the run, do you fight the conductors through each pull point trying to keep from using a splice? If so, you are probably risking damaging the conductors more than you would by splicing them.

With that said, if you feel that making a splice is short changing your customer, then by all means, always use a continuous unspliced run.

I personally won't and don't worry about it.


Roger

 

[zog]

are you talking like two j boxes....or like 20....IMO it makes a difference...

Good point. I got the impression from the OP that he had a bunch of 4 foot scraps he was going to use.

 

[LarryFine]

I personally would not install extra junctions on a new job just so I could use up some 8/3 AL or 6/3 AL but certainly would if it was 600 copper and the specs did not prohibit splices.

Interestingly, I see it the opposite.

 

[WinZip]

Were not talking about a conduit run , the original post was splicing cable in attic or crawl to use up left over cable , I guess some of us are a dieing breed!!

 

[roger]

Well I live in the power system world where we don't do that sort of thing. When you have an open end of a cable moisture will creep in and will eventually develop into water trees and then electrical trees, causing insulation failure. If cables are exposed to a moist environment they need to be pruged with nitrogen bewfore installation. Guess that shows why guys who do residential (And would use spliced scraps) have no place installing power cables.

So that shows your talking about a completely different subject that has no bearing in this thread.

I naver said it was illegal or a code violation, just that it was unprofessional.

So that is just your opinion of wiring that is not your expertise.

I have asked this already but everyone ignored me so I will ask again. Would you do an insulation resistance test on this spliced scrap wire?

No, not if there is no suspicion of damage.
Yes, if the job specs require it.

Do you test any wire you install?

Daily.

On a particular job we are doing right now we have megged/tested over 200 hundred feeders (more to go) and I have had one of your competitors test all my MV cables.

What about everyone else?

What about them? Do you think they are any less professional if they don't?

By my count I am not alone here, about half of the people responding think this is an unprofessional practice.

I don't get the same count.

Roger

 

[roger]

Were not talking about a conduit run , the original post was splicing cable in attic or crawl to use up left over cable , I guess some of us are a dieing breed!!

Heck, we have on participant that is talking about Power Distribution Cables.

Roger

 

[iwire]

Interestingly, I see it the opposite.

You would keep AL junk wire and throw out expensive copper ........... that is interesting.

When we run large feeders in buildings we regularly add splice points where we see fit as long as the specs allow it.

Or do you think we drag a 200' loop of four 600 coppers out of a J box and then turn it around and pull it back into the next conduit? We would if we have to but we also own hydraulic crimp tools so we splice.

 

[LarryFine]

You would keep AL junk wire and throw out expensive copper ........... that is interesting.

Nooooooo! I meant I'd rather splice small stuff than larger, generally speaking.

When we run large feeders in buildings we regularly add splice points where we see fit as long as the specs allow it.

Or do you think we drag a 200' loop of four 600 coppers out of a J box and then turn it around and pull it back into the next conduit?

Well, yeah. Isn't that what those boxes are sized for?


Hey, weren't we talking about a range circuit? Quit picking on me! D)

 

[mxslick]

But Larry, it's fun to pick on you. :grin:

Besides, Bob's last name is Badger, after all. :grin:

 

[iwire]

Nooooooo! I meant I'd rather splice small stuff than larger, generally speaking.

Oh well never mind then, I agree on that aspect of it.

Even with a battery powered crimping tool the thrill of splicing big copper fades fast. :grin:

Hey, weren't we talking about a range circuit?

It is a big range.

Quit picking on me! D)

I gave it careful consideration and decided no. :grin:

 

[zog]

So that shows your talking about a completely different subject that has no bearing in this thread.

And I was repling to a completely different person

So that is just your opinion of wiring that is not your expertise.

Yes, that is what I said, I live in a different world and am suprised at the practice of splicing scraps.

On a particular job we are doing right now we have megged/tested over 200 hundred feeders (more to go) and I have had one of your competitors test all my MV cables.

Well we don't do any MV cable testing so it would not be my competition. Being a moderator does not give you the the right to be a prick.

What about them? Do you think they are any less professional if they don't?

Yes I do, I prefer my house to not burn down.

I don't get the same count.

Roger

Look again, in fact why don't you start a poll and see if using spliced scraps on a job without informing your customer is professional?

 

[WinZip]

NOT professional in my book....

 

[roger]

And I was repling to a completely different person

The thread is open to everyone, if you want a direct conversation with a particular person you can use the PM feature.

Yes, that is what I said, I live in a different world and am suprised at the practice of splicing scraps.

I am a surprised at a lot of things but that doesn't mean they are wrong, inappropriate, or unsafe.

Well we don't do any MV cable testing so it would not be my competition. Being a moderator does not give you the the right to be a prick.

OK, this is another breaker and system testing company similar to your company that also does MV conductor testing, as far as being a prick by my replying to your post, I'm sorry if I offended you.

Yes I do, I prefer my house to not burn down.

Don't worry too much, a splice will probably not increase the possibility of an electrical fire over the other wiring in your home.

Look again, in fact why don't you start a poll and see if using spliced scraps on a job without informing your customer is professional?

You can start a poll as easily as I can.

Roger

 

[readydave8]

I keep my leftover cable sorted by size, its not scrap if I can use it. When I look for a cut piece I find the shortest one that will reach instead of one long enough for overkill, that way I don't wind up with a lot of the shortest.

I would do the junction box but limit myself to one per run, no good reason but you have to draw a line somewhere. I would definitely do it on a job I got by being low bidder, maybe not on a custom house.

So if anyone does start a poll count me in as a yes. Or a maybe.

 

[zog]

The thread is open to everyone, if you want a direct conversation with a particular person you can use the PM feature.

Well I had quoted iwire in my post.

OK, this is another breaker and system testing company similar to your company that also does MV conductor testing

We don't do any testing either, I think you are confused about what I do. In used to be a NETA Level 4 test engineer, but I don't do that stuff anymore. There are only 2 other companies in North America that are my competition, that are certified to do what we do, and neither of them would be testing cables in the mountians of NC.

Don't worry too much, a splice will probably not increase the possibility of an electrical fire over the other wiring in your home.

Again, no matter what the wire or cable size or voltage a splice is going to be a weak point in the insulation and a potential failure point, so the odds of a failure (and possibly) a fire will increase with each splice. By how much? I don't know, like you said I don't deal with this type of wiring, I would hire an EC to do this type of work and now I have a list of ones I would use and ones I would not in NC.

You can start a poll as easily as I can.

Roger

I don't need to, I can count.

 

[roger]

I would hire an EC to do this type of work and now I have a list of ones I would use and ones I would not in NC.

Just for fun would you care to share these company names, even by PM if you don't won't to make it public? :grin::grin::grin:

Roger

 

[zog]

You can start a poll as easily as I can.

Roger

Changed my mind, poll started

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=125087

 

[roger]

OK back on track, what is scrap? If I buy all 1000' or 2500' rolls of wire and only use 100' foot or so for a particular job, what left over length dictates whether it is scrap?

Roger

 

[iwire]

Well I live in the power system world where we don't do that sort of thing.

Which is a world that has absolutely nothing to do with OPs question.

When you have an open end of a cable moisture will creep in and will eventually develop into water trees and then electrical trees, causing insulation failure. If cables are exposed to a moist environment they need to be pruged with nitrogen bewfore installation.

Again, the cables you are speaking of have nothing to do with the OP.

All the building wire I work with comes from the factory with open ends, I guess the factory is unprofessional and is hoping for insulation failures.

Guess that shows why guys who do residential (And would use spliced scraps) have no place installing power cables.

I have not worked residential for years but get off that high horse of yours and touch the earth.

You have no idea how the vast majority of electrcal work is done. The work you do is a niche and makes up a very small percentage of the electrcal work done.

I naver said it was illegal or a code violation, just that it was unprofessional.

You are entitled to your opinion, but that is all it is.

I have asked this already but everyone ignored me so I will ask again. Would you do an insulation resistance test on this spliced scrap wire? Do you test any wire you install?

Branch circuits? Hell no.

Feeders? depends on job specs.

What about everyone else?

I can't answer for them. :grin:

 

[bpk]

I would vote against unneeded splices, and so would most homeowners if they knew. What if they decide to finish there basement eventually and the splice boxes have to be cleaned up. Would you do it on your own house. What if a plumber started spliceing plastic water lines to use up his scraps. If other ECs are bidding jobs so low that they need to splice 8/3 nmb on new installs to raise there job profit there is something wrong in our trade.