resdinetial aluminum wiring

[Riograndeelectric]

OK questions to all. what is your preference in dealing with Branch circuit aluminum wiring. Lets not get into the the types of connectors etc. but keep on the topic please. there is too much controversy over the types of aluminum connectors on the market. Thanks.

A. do you pigtail the aluminum to copper.
B. do you replace with new Co/ALR rated devices.
C. do you not work on anything that has branch circuit Aluminum conductors.

personally if the job is only a few devices or 1 room I will pigtail. if it is a whole house bid to pigtial I will not touch due to liability issues.

 

[Buck Parrish]

B................................................

 

[Volta]

B when possible, old boxes leave little room for wirenuts or similar. But I still bring plenty. Need 'em for the lights anyway.

Haven't seen any AL TR receptacles, and I made many calls but still can't find any AL NEMA 1-15 receptacles (ungrounded), nor any AL rated GFCIs.

 

[satcom]

B or http://www.kinginnovation.com/products/electrical-products/alumiconn/

 

[kbsparky]

What is the difference in liability issues whether you pigtail one room, or the whole house?

 

[infinity]

What is the difference in liability issues whether you pigtail one room, or the whole house?

My guess is statistical failure. The more that you change the greater the risk of one failing.

 

[goldstar]

Try this method. One contractor in my association does so much of this and he highly recommends it. I think he gets about $55.00/device It's crimped, pig-tailed and heat-shrinked.

http://www.alwirerepair.com/copalum_crimp_method.htm

 

[satcom]

Try this method. One contractor in my association does so much of this and he highly recommends it. I think he gets about $55.00/device It's crimped, pig-tailed and heat-shrinked.

http://www.alwirerepair.com/copalum_crimp_method.htm

That was the only approved method for years, it required you to enter a yearly contract to use the crimp tool and purchase the crimps and material from AMP , also the tool may not fit is every situation, the King connector would be another approved method, and is easy to use, however it is a screw connection, and not a crimp, IMO better for small repairs.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Try this method. One contractor in my association does so much of this and he highly recommends it. I think he gets about $55.00/device It's crimped, pig-tailed and heat-shrinked.

http://www.alwirerepair.com/copalum_crimp_method.htm

I have seen that site before but it looks to me that they are doing alum to alum. I did not see any info on copper to alum other than the name copalum.

 

[satcom]

I have seen that site before but it looks to me that they are doing alum to alum. I did not see any info on copper to alum other than the name copalum.

"Here all the new copper wire has been COPALUM crimped to the existing aluminum wire"

When a customer asks us about an alum pig tails installation, we refer them to the certified COPALUM installers, and as was noted, they pig tail every recpt for about $59 each on average.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I noticed in the pics they spliced wires before entering the panel.
Breakers are rated for AL/CO.

 

[satcom]

I noticed in the pics they spliced wires before entering the panel.
Breakers are rated for AL/CO.

I Missed the picture of the panel, just noticed the outlet boxes, yes, no need to do the panel if breakers are rated Cu/Al

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have always used the listed wirenuts and pigtail the copper to the aluminum. At one point, about 15 years ago, the regular Buchanan wirenuts stated they were listed for copper to aluminum. I used many of those and have never been back on any of them. That does not mean they never went bad but as far as I know they are still there.

 

[K8MHZ]

I have seen that site before but it looks to me that they are doing alum to alum. I did not see any info on copper to alum other than the name copalum.

Now we have cut through the crimp to illustrate what happens to the aluminum and copper wires that have been crimped. What you should notice is that the aluminum wire is now cold-welded to the copper wire creating a single wire moving forward. This is the primary reason that COPALUM crimping is considered a permanent repair.

Looks like CU to AL to me. Only the neutrals are AL to AL in the pics.

 

[satcom]

I have always used the listed wirenuts and pigtail the copper to the aluminum. At one point, about 15 years ago, the regular Buchanan wirenuts stated they were listed for copper to aluminum. I used many of those and have never been back on any of them. That does not mean they never went bad but as far as I know they are still there.

I think most of us did the same, back then, then I discovered the listed wire nuts. were listed as only a temporary repair, now i read all the fine print.

 

[LarryFine]

At the risk of criticism, here's what my experience has been:

Other than stabbed connections, the greatest number of aluminum-wiring problems I see are on circuits that are used often, but with a lot of load cycling. The two best examples are kitchen receptacle (appliances) and bedroom receptacle (TV's and lights) circuits.

From what I've read, and logic seems to support, when aluminum (as any conductor) carries current, it expands, but being so much softer than terminal parts, the round conductor flattens a bit. When it cools, it's a tiny bit looser than it was.

The next time the same current flows, the joint gets slightly warmer, causing slightly more flattening, leading to slightly more loseness, and the effect slowly snowballs over time. Loads that are cycled daily will naturally speed the process.

What I have done is to re-tighten the original connections, which are often surprisingly loose, requiring as much as two turns of the screw. Once the wire has flattened, then the screw retightened, there is more contact area, which should run cooler.

The only time I've seen the same problems at switches is when the stab and screw of the same terminal were used as the feed-through pathway for the circuit, which I thing is wrong for copper, too, instead of making a pigtail for the switch.

If the original install lasted the 20 or 30 years it had so far, then this 'temporary' fix should certainly last another so many. As I said, I know this isn't the correct or approved fix, but it's relatively economical, and I believe electrically sound.


Let the scolding begin.

 

[electricmanscott]

Allow me to relay a story about aluminum wiring that my grandpappy sparky used to tell...

[QUOTE/ grandpappy sparky]I once had to troubleshoot intermittent power in an addition on a house. As I suspected, the entire new room had been tied onto an existing receptacle. Naturally, the original circuit was aluminum. I was told the breaker tripped on occasion.

To make a long story short, inside the wall above that last receptacle box, I found the original aluminum conductors completely bare, clean, and shiny as new for about three feet up, and there was no hint of ash or residue of any kind.

The three conductors were straight and parallel from the box KO, and passed right through the staple without touching it, or each other, as if the insulation and jacket were still there, just invisible, and the ends of the plastic were melted smooth.

Obviously, those aluminum wires got so hot, the insulation and jacket slowly vaporized over time, but the aluminum seemed unscathed. It's still one of the most amazing electrical things I've seen, and that was around 35 years ago.

What's my point? I don't know. Oh, yeah, it's that the greatest danger to overcurrent is insulation damage, not conductor damage.[/QUOTE]

 

[Volta]

Allow me to relay a story about aluminum wiring that my grandpappy sparky used to tell...

[QUOTE/ grandpappy sparky]I once had to troubleshoot intermittent power in an addition on a house. As I suspected, the entire new room had been tied onto an existing receptacle. Naturally, the original circuit was aluminum. I was told the breaker tripped on occasion.

To make a long story short, inside the wall above that last receptacle box, I found the original aluminum conductors completely bare, clean, and shiny as new for about three feet up, and there was no hint of ash or residue of any kind.

The three conductors were straight and parallel from the box KO, and passed right through the staple without touching it, or each other, as if the insulation and jacket were still there, just invisible, and the ends of the plastic were melted smooth.

Obviously, those aluminum wires got so hot, the insulation and jacket slowly vaporized over time, but the aluminum seemed unscathed. It's still one of the most amazing electrical things I've seen, and that was around 35 years ago.

What's my point? I don't know. Oh, yeah, it's that the greatest danger to overcurrent is insulation damage, not conductor damage.

I've seen similar in boxes for much shorter distances, but wow, that is quite an image!

 

[K8MHZ]

Allow me to relay a story about aluminum wiring that my grandpappy sparky used to tell...

[QUOTE/ grandpappy sparky]I once had to troubleshoot intermittent power in an addition on a house. As I suspected, the entire new room had been tied onto an existing receptacle. Naturally, the original circuit was aluminum. I was told the breaker tripped on occasion.

To make a long story short, inside the wall above that last receptacle box, I found the original aluminum conductors completely bare, clean, and shiny as new for about three feet up, and there was no hint of ash or residue of any kind.

The three conductors were straight and parallel from the box KO, and passed right through the staple without touching it, or each other, as if the insulation and jacket were still there, just invisible, and the ends of the plastic were melted smooth.

Obviously, those aluminum wires got so hot, the insulation and jacket slowly vaporized over time, but the aluminum seemed unscathed. It's still one of the most amazing electrical things I've seen, and that was around 35 years ago.

What's my point? I don't know. Oh, yeah, it's that the greatest danger to overcurrent is insulation damage, not conductor damage.

[/QUOTE]

That is interesting!

Yesterday we did a service upgrade and the mast was fed with a splice of solid AL conductors. They were as bare as bare could be, and the AL was shiny. The linesman said he saw no signs of arcing and assumed that someone had just carefully cut the insulation away.

Now, after reading your story I wonder.....

 

[MarkyMarkNC]

At the risk of criticism, here's what my experience has been:

Other than stabbed connections, the greatest number of aluminum-wiring problems I see are on circuits that are used often, but with a lot of load cycling. The two best examples are kitchen receptacle (appliances) and bedroom receptacle (TV's and lights) circuits.

From what I've read, and logic seems to support, when aluminum (as any conductor) carries current, it expands, but being so much softer than terminal parts, the round conductor flattens a bit. When it cools, it's a tiny bit looser than it was.

The next time the same current flows, the joint gets slightly warmer, causing slightly more flattening, leading to slightly more loseness, and the effect slowly snowballs over time. Loads that are cycled daily will naturally speed the process.

What I have done is to re-tighten the original connections, which are often surprisingly loose, requiring as much as two turns of the screw. Once the wire has flattened, then the screw retightened, there is more contact area, which should run cooler.

The only time I've seen the same problems at switches is when the stab and screw of the same terminal were used as the feed-through pathway for the circuit, which I thing is wrong for copper, too, instead of making a pigtail for the switch.

If the original install lasted the 20 or 30 years it had so far, then this 'temporary' fix should certainly last another so many. As I said, I know this isn't the correct or approved fix, but it's relatively economical, and I believe electrically sound.


Let the scolding begin.

I've seen the most heat damage at bathroom receptacles, for the same reason you've mentioned - high amperage, intermittent loads (hairdryers.) In every single aluminum wired house I've ever worked on, there has been at least one kitchen or bathroom receptacle that has had major heat damage to the conductors. Hardened, brittle conductors, sometimes hardened a foot or more past the box.