220volts versus 240volts

[pnunley]

A customer of mine is purchasing an ASKO washer and dryer and they are manufacturing them in Sweden. Their specs and tech support is telling us that it has to be on a 220volt line and of course our residential here is 240volts.

Does anyone have any input on whether I need to install a buck and boost to bring it to 220volts or am I making a big deal out of it . I have had to install buck and boost on other equipment, mostly industrial, because of the manufacturers insistence of 220volts.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

 

[benaround]

Paul,

If they are telling you to make it 220v, I don't see where there is any choise in the matter

 

[Cavie]

Paul,

If they are telling you to make it 220v, I don't see where there is any choise in the matter

Find out if they are refering to 220 volt in the generic sense (220 vs 110) or if they are being very spcific in requireing exactly 220 v. Most people think of 220 being 220,230 240 all the same.

 

[dbuckley]

You would think that Asko being Sweedish, what with Sweeden being part of the European Union n'all, Asko would understand that 220V actually means 230V plus or minus 10% (ie 207 - 253) so that 220V, 230V, 240 and 250V are all acceptabable voltages that their kit is likley to come accross.

We have Asko stuff sole here in NZ, and we're 240V.

The bigger question is if Asko kit is happy to have 120V between the neutral wire and the ground wire, as in USA practice for resi 240 is different to the rest of the world.

 

[Volta]

...The bigger question is if Asko kit is happy to have 120V between the neutral wire and the ground wire, as in USA practice for resi 240 is different to the rest of the world.

I don't understand your comment, in the USA we have approximately ~0 volts between the Grounded (neutral) conductor and the Grounding (ground) conductor.

 

[winnie]

dbuckley mis-stated which wires have the voltage on them, but I believe his point is that in Europe 230V is supplied as a grounded conductor and a 230V 'hot' conductor; in the US we use two 'hot' conductors, each with 120V to ground and 240V between them.

If the appliance depends upon having one of the supply conductors grounded, then it won't work correctly with the US system. My understanding is that most European appliances are designed without the need to have a specific supply polarity, and so should work with the US system.

Yet another issue is that this appliance almost certainly has not been evaluated by UL or a similar body for use under an NEC controlled installation.

-Jon

 

[LarryFine]

I don't understand your comment, in the USA we have approximately ~0 volts between the Grounded (neutral) conductor and the Grounding (ground) conductor.

In 220v countries, they don't have two lones and a grounded neutral; they have one line and a grounded conductor. Imagine a panel with a single-pole main breaker, a single breaker bus, and all single-pole breakers. Oh, and a grounded-conductor bus, of course.

Their typcial residential and small-commercial panels are one phase of a wye system, what we would call 240Y/415 3ph. Larger services have two poles and a grounded conductor, like what we call 120/208v 1ph, and of course, 3 phase for the really big ones.

A device that requires a 120/240v supply won't function on a 220v-only supply, because there's no center tap. Whether one lone can be grounded is another matter that also needs to be determined. A 240-to-120/240v transformer would work. Gotta bond, too.

 

[mull982]

A device that requires a 120/240v supply won't function on a 220v-only supply, because there's no center tap.

If it is a motor then why would it care if there was a center tap as long as it had the correct voltage magnitude. Is the fact that there are electronics and other items that need 120V L-N the reason why it must be a 120/240V supply?

 

[LarryFine]

Is the fact that there are electronics and other items that need 120V L-N the reason why it must be a 120/240V supply?

Yes, for the equipment that requires the neutral. Our dryers run only the heater line-to-line.

A European 240v-only load won't need 120v, but might care if both lines are hot.

I'm sure ASKO has been asked about this, and has the answer ready. They know there's a world out there.

 

[ActionDave]

The motor doesn't care but other things like the timer and lights might. In the case of the Asko machine this is not an issue, they use 240V only.

These washer and dryers are not ordered and shipped one at a time. They are sold in the US through distributors so it only seems reasonable that they would run on 240V power.

(or i.e. what Larry said)

 

[robbietan]

in utilities here in the philippines - most is line to line voltage

and it is 240V at the secondary of the utility transformer, 230V at the house meter and probably 220V at the outlet

 

[broadgage]

I believe that the Asko equipment will be fine on a USA type 120/240 supply.

These are sold in the UK which is officialy 230, but tends to be nearer 240 in practice.
I doubt that both lines in the USA being hot would make any difference, remember that in many European countries the plugs can be inserted into the outlet either way round, therefore equipment is designed to accept a voltage on either wire to ground.

The 60 cycle frequency would make induction motors run faster, but most washers and dryers use comutator motors that wont know the difference.
A timer driven by a synchronous motor would run fast and shorten the wash cycle, but most timers are now electronic and not reliant on line frequency.

 

[PetrosA]

If this is an Asko being purchased through the normal US channels, then it will work fine and the sales people are using "220" as a nominal voltage.

 

[mshields]

Question for Larry

Question for Larry

Larry,

You said "Their typcial residential and small-commercial panels are one phase of a wye system, what we would call 240Y/415 3ph".

So in a small commercial area you'd have a pad or pole mounted transformer with secondary 240Y/415V, 3PH and each customer would be fed with only a single leg?

 

[templdl]

220v is taken from a 380Y/220 system that they use.

 

[LarryFine]

So in a small commercial area you'd have a pad or pole mounted transformer with secondary 240Y/415V, 3PH and each customer would be fed with only a single leg?

That's correct.

 

[LarryFine]

220v is taken from a 380Y/220 system that they use.

Pick your flavor (approximates):

220 * 1.73 = 380
230 * 1.73 = 400
240 * 1.73 = 415

We have 208Y/120, double those numbers, you get 416Y/240. (Again, approximately)

 

[Besoeker]

Larry,

You said "Their typcial residential and small-commercial panels are one phase of a wye system, what we would call 240Y/415 3ph".

So in a small commercial area you'd have a pad or pole mounted transformer with secondary 240Y/415V, 3PH and each customer would be fed with only a single leg?

In UK most small commercial and residential customers are fed from what you'd call pad mounted transformers. Generally they are 11kV to (nominally) 400V delta to star (wye) with the star point grounded. For the vast majority of residences 230V 50 Hz single phase supplied. Everything works from that one voltage. Lighting, heaters, washers, cookers. It is all 230V. It's just simple.

 

[LarryFine]

It is all 230V. It's just simple.

And no MWBC's.

 

[Besoeker]

And no MWBC's.

MWBC's?

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