Panel in closet

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Volta

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Location
Columbus, Ohio
Dennis Alwon said:
Volta the argument is that the OCPD should not be located in the vicinity of ignitable materials such as you would find in a clothes closet. Now in the vicinity means what? In the same room, under it, next to it, 2 foot away.....

If it is in an area of the closet where there are no ignitables then many believe it is okay. I tend to agree but I know it will fail in most areas.

Think of a closet with a 30" door that opens up to a 30" wide wall perpendicular to it. The panel is behind the door. How can ignitables be a problem when they are possible many feet away.

My point is this is up to interpretation and IMO, many inspectors and ec's believe that the code states you cannot have a OCPD in a closet. I am not sure it states that.
Click to expand...

True- it is not black and white, like so many sections, if you look hard enough.

But it is still hard not to think that it says ~'Don't put OCP devices in certain places, such as clothes closets'.
 
mcclary's electrical

mcclary's electrical

Senior Member
Location
VA
Dennis Alwon said:
Volta the argument is that the OCPD should not be located in the vicinity of ignitable materials such as you would find in a clothes closet. Now in the vicinity means what? In the same room, under it, next to it, 2 foot away.....

If it is in an area of the closet where there are no ignitables then many believe it is okay. I tend to agree but I know it will fail in most areas.

Think of a closet with a 30" door that opens up to a 30" wide wall perpendicular to it. The panel is behind the door. How can ignitables be a problem when they are possible many feet away.

My point is this is up to interpretation and IMO, many inspectors and ec's believe that the code states you cannot have a OCPD in a closet. I am not sure it states that.
Click to expand...

There IS NO WAY IT SAYS THAT,,,,,,designers, architechs, engineers design electrical closet all day long. And many times with barely enough room for equipment. If there's no clothes rod, no shelves, no provisions for hanging clothes, it's not a clothes closet, it's an electrical closet. As for it may be used to store ignitables,,,well,,think about it, How many panels have you seen in garages? If the ELECTRICAL CLOSET is empty upon inspection, and working space is met, there is not a code on this planet to cite.
 
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Volta

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Location
Columbus, Ohio
mcclary's electrical said:
There IS NO WAY IT SAYS THAT,,,,,,designers, architechs, engineers design electrical closet all day long. And many times with barely enough room for equipment. If there's no clothes rod, no shelves, no provisions for hanging clothes, it's not a clothes closet, it's an electrical closet. As for it may be used to store ignitables,,,well,,think about it, How many panels have you seen in garages? If the ELECTRICAL CLOSET is empty upon inspection, and working space is met, there is not a code on this planet to cite.
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Ok, agreed.

But do you think that any reasonable interpretation could allow it in a clothes closet?
 
iwire

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
I think the whole section should be removed.

I am under the impression modern cabinets, even ones that contain fuses are designed to keep any arcs inside the cabinate.
 
mcclary's electrical

mcclary's electrical

Senior Member
Location
VA
iwire said:
You assume.
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I don't know why everything has got to be so diffucult around here.

You make us write a full legal disclosure with every post? Get real.
If the working space is not met,,,,,,,we ALREADY KNOW it can't go there,,,,,,,so if they're asking whether or not it can be put in a clothes closet,,,,,I WOULD ASSUME the working space is met and the answer is NO,,,,Scott,,,seems to imply that even though it's a clothes closet,,,it's "big enough" to put a panel there,,,,my question,,,,,what does the size of the closet have to do with anything once the minimum requirements are met?,,,Nothing,,,,
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I think what he means is that you can have a relatvely small closet and still have a space for the panel and conversely you can have a large closet and not have space for the panel. It has to do with layout, etc.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
mcclary's electrical said:
I don't know why everything has got to be so diffucult around here.

You make us write a full legal disclosure with every post? Get real.
If the working space is not met,,,,,,,we ALREADY KNOW it can't go there,,,,,,,so if they're asking whether or not it can be put in a clothes closet,,,,,I WOULD ASSUME the working space is met and the answer is NO,,,,Scott,,,seems to imply that even though it's a clothes closet,,,it's "big enough" to put a panel there,,,,my question,,,,,what does the size of the closet have to do with anything once the minimum requirements are met?,,,Nothing,,,,
Click to expand...

Just because you do not see what the size of closet has to do with it is no reason to get upset that some of us feel differently.
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Dennis Alwon said:
My point is this is up to interpretation and IMO, many inspectors and ec's believe that the code states you cannot have a OCPD in a closet. I am not sure it states that.
Click to expand...

"Interpretation", that's the key word in all of this.

When it comes to working clearance that's spelled out pretty darn clear but when it comes to the words "closet", and "clothes closet" or "ignitable materials" there are many different opinions.

By definition a closet is a small room or recess used for "storage" and if things are stored there some of them from time to time will be easily ignitable.

When it comes right down to it there is only one interpretation that counts and that's the "Authority having jurisdiction", and that is code.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
growler said:
When it comes to working clearance that's spelled out pretty darn clear but when it comes to the words "closet", and "clothes closet" or "ignitable materials" there are many different opinions.
Click to expand...

I agree with you and the 'easily ignitable materials' line really gets me as that rules out many common locations.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
So just what is in the vicinity ? Non working space could begin at edge of either side of the panel ? We might pass 110.26 for the 30 x 36 inches but have items near the space. Thats a very gray area.
 
V

Volta

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, Ohio
I think that it is pretty easy.

Overcurrent protective devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitable material, such as clothes closets.

It is pretty clear, IMO.

Similar to:

I can rarely reach a consensus with certain groups of people, such as electricians.

:grin:
 
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