Kitchen counter outlets

[siresparks]

I have a kitchen peninsula with a 10in overhang i installed plug mold under counter top 10in from edge and inspector said that it isn't aceptable for code i've done it in the past has code changed i thought i read it was wrong if the over hang was more than 12in.

 

[charlie b]

The limit on overhang is 6 inches. See the exception to 210.52(C)(5).

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The 12" that you speak of is probably the distance down from the top of the counter

210.52(C)(5) Receptacle Outlet Location. Receptacle outlets shall be located above, but not more than 500 mm (20 in.) above, the countertop. Receptacle outlets rendered not readily accessible by appliances fastened in place, appliance garages, sinks, or rangetops as covered in 210.52(C)(1), Exception, or appliances occupying dedicated space shall not be considered as these required outlets.
Exception to (5): To comply with the conditions specified in (1) or (2), receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be mounted not more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop. Receptacles mounted below a countertop in accordance with this exception shall not be located where the countertop extends more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond its support base.
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[mcclary's electrical]

I have heard of people "cheating" the measurement by installing plugmold within 6" of the overhang. I think that still DOES NOT meet the requirement. It says nothing about being within 6",,,,it says it cannot be under an overhang more than 6"

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have heard of people "cheating" the measurement by installing plugmold within 6" of the overhang. I think that still DOES NOT meet the requirement. It says nothing about being within 6",,,,it says it cannot be under an overhang more than 6"

Okay I get it but with that logic you would have to turn down a recep that is placed say 1" back from the overhang. Let's say this over hang (12") has a small strip of wood mounted 1" near the end where you can mount a receptacle facing out not down. It would be as if the counter came to the end but it just a strip of wood.

The overhang has not changed but the receptacle is 1" from the end of the overhang. Why would that get turned down. If a counter base came to that point it would be acceptable.

My point is if you turn it down then one is not looking at the intent of the code. We sometimes need to use our smarts and not the words given to us that can get slanted and abused.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Okay I get it but with that logic you would have to turn down a recep that is placed say 1" back from the overhang. Let's say this over hang (12") has a small strip of wood mounted 1" near the end where you can mount a receptacle facing out not down. It would be as if the counter came to the end but it just a strip of wood.

The overhang has not changed but the receptacle is 1" from the end of the overhang. Why would that get turned down. If a counter base came to that point it would be acceptable.

My point is if you turn it down then one is not looking at the intent of the code. We sometimes need to use our smarts and not the words given to us that can get slanted and abused.

I disagree,,,,it deserves to fail. You using your "smarts" and not the words could get somebody hurt. The over hang more than 6" leave the cord hanging down so if someone sat down on a bar stool, and there was a coffee maker plugged into the outlet under the overhang, more than 6" gives enough slack to pull the coffe maker off onto your lap.


A receptacle mounted out close to the edge, does not eliminate this danger, and does not meet code

 

[charlie b]

I agree with McClary, and disagree with you, Dennis. The difference is that if the base cabinet comes within 6 inches, or even 1 inch, from the end of the overhang, then a person will not be able to pull a bar stool up to the peninsula at that location. But if the base cabinet is 12 inches from the edge of the overhang, there will be bar stools. Knees and cords do not make for good companions. I think the intent of the code is to limit the probability that someone will knock a crock pot full of hot stew onto their lap, by accidentally pulling the cord with their knees.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I disagree,,,,it deserves to fail. You using your "smarts" and not the words could get somebody hurt. The over hang more than 6" leave the cord hanging down so if someone sat down on a bar stool, and there was a coffee maker plugged into the outlet under the overhang, more than 6" gives enough slack to pull the coffe maker off onto your lap.


A receptacle mounted out close to the edge, does not eliminate this danger, and does not meet code

I see your point then there should be an exception to not require one. What does one do. Install it and be in violation or not install one and be in violation. I guess it all goes back to the designer.

 

[macmikeman]

I'm in McClary's camp on this. I looked into the wording of that code before about it and came up with the exact same conclusion. Although I used my Mac-hack token on one job where I had no other options except throw a bloody fit, or an above counter monster, I set a receptacle out within the 6" of the under edge. I said to myself "Never tell anybody at Mike Holt about this, so forget you heard it from me....

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The reality is with an overhang like that the area should not be considered countertop. It is really a table and should be treated as such. Generally receptacles at the end of a peninsula or island are not used and when they are things are not kept pluged in-- at least in my experience.

 

[LarryFine]

I said to myself "Never tell anybody at Mike Holt about this, so forget you heard it from me....

Heard what?

 

[pete m.]

I have never liked the requirement for the receptacle regardless of the overhang of the counter-top surface. Even if the counter-top only extends 2" beyond it's base and you installed the receptacle within the 12" vertical it still could have night-marish results.

Example: You just got back from a very good fishing trip, beer-batter mixed, peanut oil at 375 degrees. Fry-Daddy plugged into aforementioned receptacle and your 3 year old son wants to see what Daddy is up too... one tug on cord from Jr..... need I say more

I know that the alternative (if the receptacle were not installed as required) would most likely be an extension cord ran to the Fry-Daddy on the island which could also render the same result.

Sorry for the rant.

Pete

 

[macmikeman]

Example: You just got back from a very good fishing trip, beer-batter mixed, peanut oil at 375 degrees. Fry-Daddy plugged into aforementioned receptacle and your 3 year old son wants to see what Daddy is up too... one tug on cord from Jr..... need I say more
Pete

What? You mean you guys cook you fish??

 

[glene77is]

Guys,

What are the options for installing a receptical at/or near
the end of a counter-top / peninsula?

If not on the outward facing knee-wall,
then are we limited to a top-mounted receptical?

If so, then what design options (and opinions) are there
for the top-mounted receptical?

 

[Volta]

Guys,

What are the options for installing a receptical at/or near
the end of a counter-top / peninsula?

If not on the outward facing knee-wall,
then are we limited to a top-mounted receptical?

If so, then what design options (and opinions) are there
for the top-mounted receptical?

Or a pendant receptacle, but no one likes that either.

 

[iwire]

Example: You just got back from a very good fishing trip, beer-batter mixed, peanut oil at 375 degrees. Fry-Daddy plugged into aforementioned receptacle and your 3 year old son wants to see what Daddy is up too... one tug on cord from Jr..... need I say more

Fryers are required to have pull off cords, they are held in place by magnets.

 

[iwire]

Or a pendant receptacle,

LOL

I am picturing a $50K kitchen remodel with some SJ pendents over the island. :grin:

Safe except for the rooms designer who will have a stroke when they see it.

 

[Volta]

LOL

I am picturing a $50K kitchen remodel with some SJ pendents over the island. :grin:

Safe except for the rooms designer who will have a stroke when they see it.

I know, they said they liked the that industrial look-

until they saw that :grin:.

 

[jumper]

Or a pendant receptacle, but no one likes that either.

LOL

I am picturing a $50K kitchen remodel with some SJ pendents over the island. :grin:

Safe except for the rooms designer who will have a stroke when they see it.

Geez guys, if we are going to destroy the remodel job, we should at least do it in style and install one of these into that 3000$ granite counter top:

 

[glene77is]

Geez guys, if we are going to destroy the remodel job, we should at least do it in style and install one of these into that 3000$ granite counter top:

Jumper,
Those three devices look good.
Thanks for the idea.