Gas pipe bonding

[george t. everett]

In NewYork State the gas piping is required to be bonded if it contains any CSST.
Is the short flexible sections used to connect appliances, considered to be CSST?
My inspector thinks so.

 

[electricmanscott]

I think someone here had some info on that. Those are "appliance connectors" or some term like that NOT csst.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't believe that is CSST. It is a flexible appliance pipe but not CSST. I believe Chris (Raider) had that info.

 

[raider1]

I don't believe that is CSST. It is a flexible appliance pipe but not CSST. I believe Chris (Raider) had that info.

Yep, the small yellow connector used to connect a gas appliance to the main gas piping system are listed as appliance connectors. If the appliance connectors installation instructions require special bonding then you would need to follow that but just because you use an appliance connector does not mean that you must treat it like it is CSST and bond the system with a #6.

Chris

 

[tom baker]

Appilance connectors have been around long before CSST. They were never even considered for bonding as the piping was black iron, and sometimes it was bonded, but even if not, the applicance was normally bonded via its EGC in its supply circuit.

 

[erickench]

If you don't mind me asking but where in the state's building/residential code does it say that gas piping containing CSST must be bonded? I'm asking because I live in New York State.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If you don't mind me asking but where in the state's building/residential code does it say that gas piping containing CSST must be bonded? I'm asking because I live in New York State.

I cannot answer this because I believe it was recently amended in NY. However the need to bond CSST comes from the manufacturers specifications-- thus someone is obligated to bond it--- usually this falls on the EC.

I found this post by one of our members from 2008.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I found this post from one of our members from 2008

 

[jbelectric777]

I didnt think NY had adopted a UCC ?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I didnt think NY had adopted a UCC ?

What is a UCC?

Here is another site dated april 2010 for NY.

 

[jbelectric777]

Uniform Construction Code

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I cannot answer this because I believe it was recently amended in NY. However the need to bond CSST comes from the manufacturers specifications-- thus someone is obligated to bond it--- usually this falls on the EC.

I found this post by one of our members from 2008.

I see no reason that this should be an obligation to the electrical contractor, unless it is specifically in the ECs scope of work. The obligation is to the contractor who installed the CSST. Yes, I understand that this maybe considered electrical work and require an electrical license but that still does not make this bonding work an obligation of the electrical contractor. The person who installed this stuff has the obligation and he may have to contract an EC to do the work.

 

[erickench]

I cannot answer this because I believe it was recently amended in NY. However the need to bond CSST comes from the manufacturers specifications-- thus someone is obligated to bond it--- usually this falls on the EC.

I found this post by one of our members from 2008.

Thanks, here is the exact rule from the state's residential code:

SECTION G2411 (310) ELECTRICAL BONDING

G2411.1 (310.1) Gas pipe bonding. Each above-ground portion of a gas piping system that is likely to become energized shall be electrically continuous and bonded to an effective ground-fault current path. Gas piping shall be considered to be bonded where it is connected to gas utilization equipment that is connected to the equipment grounding conductor of the circuit supplying that equipment.


If you here anymore about such New York State rules I would appreciate you
emailing me about them. I'm going into the Electrical Inspection business in Long Island and I must keep up with these state rules.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Erick -- that rule is where there is no CSST being used.Here is the rule with CSST

?G2411.2 (310.2) Gas pipe bonding - systems that contain CSST. A gas piping system that contains any corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) shall be electrically continuous and shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building or structure. No portion of the gas piping system shall be used as or considered to be a grounding electrode or a grounding electrode conductor. CSST shall be installed and bonded in accordance with this section G2411.2, and the stricter of: (a) the requirements set forth in the CSST manufacturer?s installation instructions, or (b) the requirements set forth in Sections G2411.2.1, G2411.2.2, G2411.2.3, and G2415.5.
?G2411.2.1 Bonding jumper. Where the electric service for the individual installation is 200 amperes or less, the bonding jumper shall not be smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or 4 AWG aluminum or copper-clad aluminum wire, and shall be permanently connected to the grounding electrode system. Where the electric service for the individual installation is more than 200 amperes, the bonding jumper size shall be determined in accordance with Table E 3503.1, and shall be permanently connected to the grounding electrode system.
?G2411.2.2 Bonding clamp. The bonding jumper shall be connected to the gas piping system with a bonding clamp that is listed for the material of the bonding jumper and for the material of the component of the gas piping system to which the bonding clamp is attached. The bonding clamp shall be attached to the gas piping system at a point which is inside the building or structure in which the gas piping is installed, on the downstream side of the gas meter or regulator, in an unconcealed and readily accessible space, and as close as practicable to the point where the gas service enters the building or structure. The bonding clamp shall be attached to a segment of metallic fuel gas pipe which (a) is a component of the gas piping system, (b) is electrically continuous with all CSST components of the gas piping system, (c) is made of steel or wrought-iron, (d) complies with Section G2414.4.2 of this code and with all other applicable provisions of Section G2414 of this code, and (e) is not less than 3 inches (76 mm) in length. Neither the CSST nor the brass hexagonal nut on the CSST fitting shall be used as an attachment point for the bonding clamp.

 

[erickench]

Well from what I could see this rule is not in the 2007 NYC Residential Code. Has there been a new cycle since then?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Well from what I could see this rule is not in the 2007 NYC Residential Code. Has there been a new cycle since then?

I got that from the second link I posted that was from April, 2010. It may have been an amendment. The rule you posted is basically what the NEC states.

Let me state that I really don't know much about NY rules. This was posted but it is a NY State rule so perhaps NYC is not ruled by it. Pierre would be the one to ask. Shoot him a PM.

 

[eprice]

I got that from the second link I posted that was from April, 2010. It may have been an amendment. The rule you posted is basically what the NEC states.

Let me state that I really don't know much about NY rules. This was posted but it is a NY State rule so perhaps NYC is not ruled by it. Pierre would be the one to ask. Shoot him a PM.

I believe NY adopts the IRC with amendments. The quote you posted appears to be from that amended IRC. The unamended 2009 IRC says pretty much the same thing, though not with as much detail, in Section G2411.1.1. This is also found in the unamended 2009 International Fuel Gas Code in Section 310.1.1.

I see no reason that this should be an obligation to the electrical contractor, unless it is specifically in the ECs scope of work. The obligation is to the contractor who installed the CSST. Yes, I understand that this maybe considered electrical work and require an electrical license but that still does not make this bonding work an obligation of the electrical contractor. The person who installed this stuff has the obligation and he may have to contract an EC to do the work.

That is how I see it as well.