MR. S
Member
- Location
- Connecticut
Would a recepticle mounted at 18" aff behind the dishwasher satisfy the accessable part in
422.16(B)(2) and 422.33(A)
422.16(B)(2) and 422.33(A)
Dishwasher outlet
- Thread starter MR. S
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
The plug has to be "accessible," not "readily accessible." Besides, that is why you need to have a 3-4 foot cord, so there is room to move the DW out of the way, and thereby get to the plug.
But isn't the purpose of the disconnect so you can safely move the DW out in the first place?
MR. S
Member
- Location
- Connecticut
That was my first thought, I looked up accessable in art. 100. ????????
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
I think not. Moving the DW across the floor far enough to get to the plug does not impose an electrical safety hazard. The purpose of the disconnect is to allow you to safely work on the wiring inside the unit.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
So did I, before I posted my first response. Since I never did actually give you my answer to your question, let me do it now: Yes.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
I agree with Charlie, Yes a receptacle behind a dishwasher would be accessible.
Chris
Chris
MR. S
Member
- Location
- Connecticut
Life is good, thanks guys
- Location
- Massachusetts
I disagree with both of the moderators above.
IMO the disconnecting means for the DW is not accessible located behind said DW.
My ammunition that supports this thought is that for a range this is only allowed if removal of the draw allows access to the receptacle. 422.33(B)
- Location
- Massachusetts
You have not worked on many DWs have you.:grin:
In the course of disconnecting it from the counter you may be exposed to live parts underneath the DW. IMO you need to be able to kill the power before you have to work on it.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Bob, 422.16(B)(2)(4) specifically states that a receptacle for a cord and plug connected dishwasher shall be located in the space occupied by the appliance OR adjacent thereto.
Chris
Chris
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Well, I suppose there is a first time for everything.:grin:
The article 100 definition of ?accessible? speaks of moving part of the building, and you don?t have to do that to remove a DW from its place.
I consider that to be ammunition in support of my/our point of view. The say that for a range, because they have a reason to think a range is somehow different. My guess would be that ranges are heavier, and tend to get hotter. But they first say that an accessible plug is acceptable as a means of disconnecting an appliance, and then they give credit for the same thing for a range only if there is a drawer. So I conclude it is acceptable for a DW without a drawer.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Not a single one. But I have installed or replaced a few (in my own home).
Every time I have installed or replaced one, a single wood screw is all that attached the unit to the counter. There are no live parts anywhere near that screw.
I agree with that. But the act of sliding the unit away from the wall is not "working on it."
- Location
- Massachusetts
I will mark the calender.:grin:
This blows my mind coming from you.
You are typically a strong supporter of safety for workers and in this case you seem to not care at all about the worker.
Typically to remove a DW you may have to disconnect supply and drain lines unscrew it from the counter and you want the worker to have to do this with the machine live. To me that is unsafe.
Further if a repair person comes to work on the electronics in the door you have put them in a position where they will work it hot over pulling it out.
I have no idea if range is heaver than a DW but I do know it takes a good deal more work to pull it out of it's space. If the people have redone the floor since the DW went in it may not even be removable any longer.
I cannot follow that logic at all.
Just a bit. Take a look at a range, and how much of the interior wiring can you see? None...... it's all inside the sheet metal. Not so with ordinary DWs. They're rife with exposed wiring.
Yes and yes.
Moving it does not expose a hazard, IF the supply and drain lines are long enough to allow it to move. Most aren't. So even though a recept directly behind the DW is Code-Compliant, it isn't the best or safest option.
I disagree with both of the moderators above.
IMO the disconnecting means for the DW is not accessible located behind said DW.
My ammunition that supports this thought is that for a range this is only allowed if removal of the draw allows access to the receptacle. 422.33(B)
Mark the calendar again as I agree with Bob on this point. :grin:
And that is what the Code states. But as we've often debated on these forums, the Code isn't always right or logical.
I recall seeing on the web (Can't remember if it was here or another forum) where a dishwasher cord set plug caught fire and it was hard to get to because it was behind the DW.
Common practice here in So Cal seems to be a split hot/switched recept for the DW and disposall, both under the sink.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Yes but does but that does not say we can ignore other parts of the code. We could locate the receptacle at the front end of the space not the rear.
Parts of the code also call for light fixtures outside but we still have to choose a fixture rated for that location.
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
We must not put so or sj cords up above accesable lift out ceiling tiles, because that cord will be out of sight and insulation of said cord will degrade in due time, (all according to the code making panel). But a cord connected dishwasher which is even more unlikely to be removed to inspect , - the so or sj appliance cord which allows it to be plugged into a receptacle outlet is ok by the code.... ugh, ok then.... Me, I put a single pole switch in under the sink, and then hardwire my dishwashers downstream of that switch. This is not mandatory by code, but it satisfies both myself and the nec. (unless of course the panel is within sight and less than 50 ft away.)
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
I have to wonder if we are envisioning different animals here. I have only dealt with the DW units that go into household kitchens. I can remove one screw just above the door at the front of the unit, and easily slide the unit away from the wall without even opening the door, or touching anything inside or underneath the unit. My hands would be at least 24 inches from the nearest wires, and those are protected by small enclosures. The power cords and the hoses have always been flexible, so there was never a need to disconnect plumbing or electrical wiring, until after the unit was in the middle of the kitchen.
Are you envisioning a different kind of unit?
I do care. I just don't see an electrical hazard.
Besides, this is another matter of the words saying what the words say. And I see words that tell me that plug and cord connections are acceptable, even if the plug is merely "accessible." Also, the definition of that term is all about damaging the building. Moving a DW away from the wall does not damage the structure. So I can't see how a plug behind an easily removed DW is not "accessible."
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