deep boxes

[jetlag]

If you use the first cable hole nearest the stud on a 3.5 " nail on or other box the cable coming out the knock out violates the 1.25 " distance from the edge of the stud. Is this a code violation. To be safe if possible I use only the second or more cable punch out. that moves the cable to the right or left away from the stud the required distance where it doesnt matter if the cable is 1 " or less from the back side of the dry wall. The cable can be pulled back over the top of the box to get the required distance before going to the stud to staple. Is this a necessary thing to do or is there an exception for the deep boxes at the first punch out hole.

 

[infinity]

I know of no exception for these boxes other than common sense. This has been debated here before. IMO is would be rather silly to put a red tag on something that uses the KO closest to the stud.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

If you use the first cable hole nearest the stud on a 3.5 " nail on or other box the cable coming out the knock out violates the 1.25 " distance from the edge of the stud. Is this a code violation. To be safe if possible I use only the second or more cable punch out. that moves the cable to the right or left away from the stud the required distance where it doesnt matter if the cable is 1 " or less from the back side of the dry wall. The cable can be pulled back over the top of the box to get the required distance before going to the stud to staple. Is this a necessary thing to do or is there an exception for the deep boxes at the first punch out hole.

I can't say there's a code against it. But I will say that I always use the furthest ko from the studi f I'm only using one.

 

[macmikeman]

I'll bet somebody else probably pointed this out in the other threads about the subject , but I will anyway. Since we are now going to "worry" about such a possibility of danger from using the closest ko on a nail on box, you are all also given my permission to fret and stay up all night due to the also possibility of the homeowner putting a picture hook or other sharp thingy into the rear side of switch boxes on the back side of the wall behind the switches. And lets don't forget the time I posted a nice picture of a car imbedded into the roof of a house, proof that you must also be aware of flying cars that might hit the house roof and damage the wiring in the attic as well.

 

[Ruff-N]

If you use the first cable hole nearest the stud on a 3.5 " nail on or other box the cable coming out the knock out violates the 1.25 " distance from the edge of the stud. Is this a code violation. To be safe if possible I use only the second or more cable punch out. that moves the cable to the right or left away from the stud the required distance where it doesnt matter if the cable is 1 " or less from the back side of the dry wall. The cable can be pulled back over the top of the box to get the required distance before going to the stud to staple. Is this a necessary thing to do or is there an exception for the deep boxes at the first punch out hole.

Don't use deep boxes for everthing and if you do happen to use a deep box then use a steel plate where need be and thats how you can rest your mind .

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Don't use deep boxes for everthing and if you do happen to use a deep box then use a steel plate where need be and thats how you can rest your mind .

Good point, there's nothing that says you can't use that ko, but to be legal, it would need a plate overlapping the ko. Simple fix

 

[jetlag]

I'll bet somebody else probably pointed this out in the other threads about the subject , but I will anyway. Since we are now going to "worry" about such a possibility of danger from using the closest ko on a nail on box, you are all also given my permission to fret and stay up all night due to the also possibility of the homeowner putting a picture hook or other sharp thingy into the rear side of switch boxes on the back side of the wall behind the switches. And lets don't forget the time I posted a nice picture of a car imbedded into the roof of a house, proof that you must also be aware of flying cars that might hit the house roof and damage the wiring in the attic as well.

Believe me it is not as far fetched for a dry wall man to hit the cable as the other things you have listed when you consider 40 or more boxes in a house. And i dont need permission to worry I simply use the second hole, even on a single box 2 wire in each hole top and bottom is 4 cables and max allowed . If not the max its all I will put in a single box anyway.

 

[Rockyd]

I'm with macmikeman on this one. The concept of the potential of the wire getting hit with a nail, screw, whatever, probably gave birth to the safety selling point of afci's. Unfortunately, the low end, tract logic affect spreads across the whole market place. A well built place, done by craftsmen would never be at risk of a errant penetration to a wire. Given an apprentice, or say something like an illegal alien here for the money (nails driven equals money), or anyone wlse who knows that if they speak up about a risk - there gone, and they know it, so we have overkill protection.

 

[Ruff-N]

In the time I did residential I saw far more damage to the wires from routers used to cut out boxes than a errant nail or screw, rare if any. And in this case IMO it would be pretty hard to drive a nail or screw in that area that close to the box.

 

[jetlag]

Thanks ruff

Thanks ruff

Don't use deep boxes for everthing and if you do happen to use a deep box then use a steel plate where need be and thats how you can rest your mind .

I only use deep boxes , almost every time I dont I have to pull them back off because there are a couple more wires to put in than I thought or I forgot it was a GFCI rec going in . Even when a smaller box meets code its worth the few extra cents when trying to install a rec in a box loaded to max allowed. I know u are thinking why cant i count the wires better, well sometimes after getting stared you see an easier way but it changes the number of cables in some boxes. We have all been there and P O to pull out the small box

 

[tkb]

So if the cable is subject to damage from a nail or screw from the back side of the wall, isn't the box and the wires in the box subject to the same damage?

Seems pointless to restrict the cable at the termination point while the box is unrestricted.

 

[jetlag]

thanks tkb

thanks tkb

So if the cable is subject to damage from a nail or screw from the back side of the wall, isn't the box and the wires in the box subject to the same damage?

Seems pointless to restrict the cable at the termination point while the box is unrestricted.

Thats a good point , and a screw will go right in a plactic box easily, no problem with metal box . I know these things dont happen much but when they do it is a nightmare to find the short and cut holes in the drywall that is already painted. That is why some electricians go to trouble to nail a spacer block on every stud with a plastic box. The dry wall man will not likely jump over extra 1.5 " from where he has been hitting a stud. With an air nailer and box of blocks it doesnt take much time

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

It is a violation but in my almost 30 years of wiring never had a problem over it. Now if i was inspecting and it was pay back time then i sure would nail you on it.

 

[jetlag]

It is a violation but in my almost 30 years of wiring never had a problem over it. Now if i was inspecting and it was pay back time then i sure would nail you on it.

what are you saying is a violation, nailing a block on a stud ? you have to on a door jam to clear wide molding and the face plate.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

what are you saying is a violation, nailing a block on a stud ? you have to on a door jam to clear wide molding and the face plate.

Violation is using any hole within 1 1/4 inches of framing. And that could include that block your adding. Never had an inspector say a word but would be wise use ones away from the stud.

 

[macmikeman]

Somebody help me,,, was there ever in print an exception to the cables where they are installed into a box? I could almost swear I have read that before, but cannot find it in any of the code books in my bookshelves.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Somebody help me,,, was there ever in print an exception to the cables where they are installed into a box? I could almost swear I have read that before, but cannot find it in any of the code books in my bookshelves.

I won't say it was never there but i never seen it.

 

[e57]

Violation is using any hole within 1 1/4 inches of framing. And that could include that block your adding. Never had an inspector say a word but would be wise use ones away from the stud.

If I remember right the wording of the code in question uses the word "Likely"...

the cable or raceway shall be installed and supported so that the nearest outside surface of the cable or raceway is not less than 32 mm (1 1/4 in.) from the nearest edge of the framing member or furring strips where nails or screws are likely to penetrate.​

Now.... IMO this depends on how neurotic the AHJ is about the word "likely".... In an area near one would hang pictures or say TV's these days inspectors here might give you some grief, but otherwise the thinking that every sheet rock screw is aimed at the wire is excessive. But a few inspectors here, and a few to the south of here are a little more 'literal' in the interpretation of "Likely"...

 

[LarryFine]

Never had an inspector say a word but would be wise use ones away from the stud.

I never have either, and I guess I'm unwise. :roll:

 

[Ruff-N]

Violation is using any hole within 1 1/4 inches of framing. And that could include that block your adding. Never had an inspector say a word but would be wise use ones away from the stud.

Design flaw, should the EC backcharge the box manufacturer should the EC get a red tag on the job. This IMO is a case where we should just let the giant sleep otherwise we could end up causing more problems than its worth, Example: Inspectors picking up on this and citing this as a code violation. I have in my many years of installing NM boxes and Romex have never had a problem with nails or inspectors with regards to this now sensitive area JM2cW.