Manufacturers leaving out ground bars?

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lunalilo

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I had an encounter with a person who pointed out that the only bars in the panel he bought were bonded together (at opposite ends of the panel), and neither had green screws for a ground bar identification. Is this weird, because I thought EVERY panel would have it, taking into account that it's required that everything be grounded back to the main electrode.

Am I wrong for thinking that manufacturer's are forgetting to put in ground bars?
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
That is standard for GE and Seimens. Often times, many EC's, will overlook the green screw that is enclosed in the packaging. I know I have and I have to remember that as my first duty in installing a main panel.
 
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jim dungar

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Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
lunalilo said:
I had an encounter with a person who pointed out that the only bars in the panel he bought were bonded together (at opposite ends of the panel), and neither had green screws for a ground bar identification. Is this weird, because I thought EVERY panel would have it, taking into account that it's required that everything be grounded back to the main electrode.

Am I wrong for thinking that manufacturer's are forgetting to put in ground bars?
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A green screw is not a requirement (except on receptacles).

Are you saying manufacturer's are not providing a bonding means?

Some Square D main lug only load centers are shipped with separate neutral and ground bars, under the assumption they are being used as sub-panels. Square D main breaker load centers are shipped with a neutral bar plus a bonding screw (dedicated ground bars must be purchased separately), under the assumption they are being used as service entrance equipment.
 
ceb58

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
Dennis Alwon said:
That is standard for GE and Seimens. Often times, many EC's, will overlook the green screw that is enclosed in the packaging. I know I have and I have to remember that as my first duty in installing a main panel.
Click to expand...

Easy to lose that small brown envelope when you open every thing up.
 
chris kennedy

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
lunalilo said:
Am I wrong for thinking that manufacturer's are forgetting to put in ground bars?
Click to expand...

I use mostly Siemens gear and order EGC bars separately. Something else that kills me is ordering 4"LB and being asked if I want a cover with that???
 
Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
Some times they use the little brass kind of L shaped bar.

I heard of a guy that had a whole bucket of them in his truck. When asked what he was doing with all those brass L shaped things. He say's man they put them in every panel I buy, never knew what they we're used for.




PS Thanks for banning SPAMO "GRASCO." The nerve of that guy sending PM'S to sell the " snake oil electric saving device".
 
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wireguy8169

Senior Member
Location
Southern Maine
Sometimes

Sometimes

I asked that question once to the square d rep. He said its like buying ala carte. For instance why, include extra ground bars if the install is a main panel and you dont want it. Now if your going to be using it as a sub you get a bar or two and add them in the already drilled holes. If not most of us would have a ton of spare ground bars laying around. Seemed pretty logical, but figure there is more to their margin to it cause little things like that add up.
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
Warning hijack

Warning hijack

chris kennedy said:
I use mostly Siemens gear and order EGC bars separately. Something else that kills me is ordering 4"LB and being asked if I want a cover with that???
Click to expand...

I asked for a 2" to 3/4" reducing washer today. The counter guy brought up one washer. We both chuckled. Why would they NOT be sold in pairs?
 
Split Bolt

Split Bolt

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
I use Siemens and the bonding screw is usually already in the hole where it goes. You just need to tighten it. As a main panel, there is no need to separate the neutrals & grounds, but as a sub panel, you can either buy a ground bar when you buy the panel or remove the metal piece that runs from the right bar to the left bar, creating your 2 separate bars.
 
M

macmikeman

Senior Member
Location
Planet macmikeman
Lunalilo, 99 out of 100 panels on Oahu are sub panels. The exception would be the all in one meter/ load center combination cans with the main breaker in them, and some old split bus main panels found in some older areas. For the majority of our panels, putting a bonding screw to the neutral busbar would be a code violation. The bonding is done at the meter main socket outside. Those indoor panels are not the service disconnect. CH BR panels, which you guys sell mostly do not come with a grounding busbar, and the listed gr busbar for CH panels does not use green screws (not required). Ge panels have a built in grounding busbar with green screws. Green looks nice but not required for grounding busbars unless it is the main bonding jumper screw.
 
Split Bolt

Split Bolt

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
jumper said:
How about light fixtures with no lamps?

Supply house sends 20 2x4 lay ins and no lamps.:mad:

Boss points to 4 circleline fixtures and says install them. Where are the lamps I ask. Boss says he forgot them.:mad:
Click to expand...

It seems funny to me that when the homeowner provides cheap fixtures from the big box store, they almost always come with lamps included inside the box, yet the expensive name brand fixtures rarely come with lamps included!
 
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wireguy8169

Senior Member
Location
Southern Maine
Lowes

Lowes

Well, hate to hijack but here is one for you. Did a decent size job of installing some recessed lighting. Well, the customer did not like my price and asked if he bought the fixtures would I install them and just charge labor. Well, I was fine with that. So they went to lowes and bought oh I think it was 32 fixtures on clearance . Did the rough, got my call back about a month later and the owner was nearly hysterical. Asked me if I could get the trims for the fixtures as lowes no longer carried them. Well, needless to say I ended up taking out the fixtures and putting in some old work fixtures that he could get the trims for. Enough said. $$$$
 
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wireguy8169

Senior Member
Location
Southern Maine
Lamps included

Lamps included

Its been my experience that if the fixtures came with lamps I would not have used them. Especially now that some folks want CF lamps. Not sure why the big stores have them included but again may just be the bottom line for some companies.
 
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