Generac Install

[IllinoisElectrician]

doing my first generator pretty soon... a couple of questions if anyone can help me out




I'm doing a Generac air cooled generator with supplied 14 circuit ats. I'd like to run all my wires to the gen in a single conduit, but isn't this against code because the control wires are 12vdc? Or is there some exception to this? Also, do I need a ground rod? I believe the neutral is not transfered through the equipment, and therefore I would assume I didn't need one. If I did need one, connecting one soley to the ground lug is acceptable, and my RMC/EMT counts as my equiptment grounding conducter to the ats? Also, does anyone know where the conduit enters? Going to be like 2.5' from the building, I would prefe it to enter somewhere at the bottom, but are there knockouts or something on the side of it feeding an internal box? Or do I have to come from under it? Last question, I need to remove the two pole breakers and add more single poles. What kind of breakers can I replace these with? Or do I have to search for the specific generac part number?

Any help is appreciated, thank you.

 

[chris kennedy]

I'd like to run all my wires to the gen in a single conduit, but isn't this against code because the control wires are 12vdc?Also, do I need a ground rod?

You will find both these answers in the manual.

Also, does anyone know where the conduit enters? Going to be like 2.5' from the building, I would prefe it to enter somewhere at the bottom, but are there knockouts or something on the side of it feeding an internal box? Or do I have to come from under it?

We come in the bottom through the slab, again the slab layout is in the manual.

 

[ceb58]

doing my first generator pretty soon... a couple of questions if anyone can help me out




I'm doing a Generac air cooled generator with supplied 14 circuit ats. I'd like to run all my wires to the gen in a single conduit, but isn't this against code because the control wires are 12vdc? Or is there some exception to this? Also, do I need a ground rod? I believe the neutral is not transfered through the equipment, and therefore I would assume I didn't need one. If I did need one, connecting one soley to the ground lug is acceptable, and my RMC/EMT counts as my equiptment grounding conducter to the ats? Also, does anyone know where the conduit enters? Going to be like 2.5' from the building, I would prefe it to enter somewhere at the bottom, but are there knockouts or something on the side of it feeding an internal box? Or do I have to come from under it? Last question, I need to remove the two pole breakers and add more single poles. What kind of breakers can I replace these with? Or do I have to search for the specific generac part number?

Any help is appreciated, thank you.

As Chris has said your info is in the installation manual. Most of these units come with a 10ft whip on them from the gen. From the gen it goes to a supplied j-box. The ATS has a whip on it also that you run to the j-box. In the whip is your control wire and the feed wire. This is where you can get in trouble with 225.31 as this j-box is not a disconnect. As far as replacing breakers if my memory serves me right they are a standard Siemens breaker. The transfer switch doesn't switch the neutral so you would not need an additional g-rod. I will give you this advise read the instructions. When every thing is hooked up and you are ready for the start up there is a procedure for manually switching the ATS. If you do not follow those instructions the gen. will not crank.

 

[flyboy]

I suspect you aren't, but are you a Generac dealer? If not, I suggest you consider it. You'll then have access to the dealer connection website where you can obtain the proper training for not only installing, but for servicing and repairs.

There is an installation CD that comes with the generator in addition to an installtion manual. I strongly suggest you watch it and read the manual cover to cover and install it exactly according to the instructions.

If you don't and there is a problem, you'll need a certified technician through an authorized Generac Dealer if you need tech support. They won't talk to you.

If your not a Generac Dealer, you owe it to your customer to at least make contact with one that will service and repair the unit for them after the install.

We are one of the top ten Generac dealers in the NY, NJ, Pa market and offer this service to other electricians without prejudice.

You may need to call several Generac dealers before you find one that will service your customer if they haven't installed it.

 

[hillbilly1]

We were a Generac dealer, didn't help us any at all. Their poor bookkeeping would not show us as a dealer, even though we had a dealer number. We installed approx. 150 units in two years, so you would figure they would know who we were. I would usually figure out what was wrong with the unit before they would. Some of the issues were miswiring at the factory, which they did correct on those units. The older units used Square D Homeline breakers, but I think they are now using Siemens. You will need the neutral from the generator. We had to buy $1200 worth of electronics when one install crew thought it was not needed. The neutral is not connected to the ground at the generator, but the manufacture does call for a grounding electrode to be connected to the frame using the provided lug.

 

[flyboy]

We were a Generac dealer, didn't help us any at all. Their poor bookkeeping would not show us as a dealer, even though we had a dealer number. We installed approx. 150 units in two years, so you would figure they would know who we were. I would usually figure out what was wrong with the unit before they would. Some of the issues were miswiring at the factory, which they did correct on those units. The older units used Square D Homeline breakers, but I think they are now using Siemens. You will need the neutral from the generator. We had to buy $1200 worth of electronics when one install crew thought it was not needed. The neutral is not connected to the ground at the generator, but the manufacture does call for a grounding electrode to be connected to the frame using the provided lug.

I suspect you were a dealer a few years ago. The company is under new ownership. It is a completely different company today.

 

[iwire]

The only place I would choose to install a Generac

 

[ceb58]

The only place I would choose to install a Generac

Stop holding back Bob, tell your real feelings

 

[WinZip]

The only place I would choose to install a Generac

Funny for real.

 

[sparky 134]

Recently installed a Generac unit for a family member. Fired up the generator, metered the phases at the transfer switch from the generator and had 120v on each phase to neutral. BUT, when the transfer switch clunked over I suddenly had 40volts on one phase and 240volt on the other !!

Shut off the generator and go in the house to the lovely smell of burnt electronics. Two surge strips had given their life. I spent about an hour double checking my connections and everything I installed from the transfer switch out to the factory wired junction box was good so I called it a night.

Returned the next morning and called Generac tech support but since I'm not a dealer anymore they were very limited as to advice. The only thing the tech would say is, "You have an open neutral."

I knew my wiring was good between the transfer switch, panel and factory wired junction box so I opened the cover on the control compartment in the generator and found the factory had landed the neutral wire that runs between the generator and the junction box on the GROUND post instead of the NEUTRAL post. Called tech support back, told them when I found and asked if the neutral was supposed to be on the GROUND post or NEUTRAL post (I already knew the answer).

Since I'm not a dealer tech support said they would not pay me to fix the FACTORY error and that I would have to call a Generac dealer to make the repair or do it myself for free. Of course, my only concern was to get my customer up and running so I switched the wire after the customer took several pictures of the factory wiring error.

That was over a month ago and Generac is still refusing to pay for the damaged equipment. I was told, "In the back of the generator manual it clearly states Generac is not responsible for damage caused by the generator."

Way to stand behind your product. Generac's first response was they are not responsible for field wiring errors. After clarifying the fact the error was a factory mistake they still hold they are not responsible.

I was done with being a dealer when some young punk who was my 'sales manager' called to say he was removing my company from the website since I didn't purchase enough generators BUT would keep me listed if I bought six generators right now. He followed that up with an offer of free flooring for six months and then I would start paying flooring charges for the generators. I counter offered with I would take the six generators, charge him monthly storage and when I sold one I would pay for it. He didn't appreciate my counter offer.

I asked, "Why would I pay you to store your equipment ?"

"So you have them ready to deliver to your customer."

"When I need one I order it and have it delivered in a few days."

"What if the customers wants it right away ?"

"Then I will find it locally and it will cost the customer more."

"That's not a good way to do business."

"Neither is paying someone to store their equipment."

"Sooner or later you will have to deal with this."

At this point I was done being cordial and told him quite loudly to never contact me again. I got the impression he was some young kid out to prove his worth to Generac by bullying his customers into buying equipment.

I'm glad to see Kohler has come out with some competitively priced gensets. If Kolhler can start taking away some of Generac's market share maybe that will help bring Generac back to reality.

 

[mkgrady]

The only place I would choose to install a Generac

You mean they run on methane?

 

[hillbilly1]

...........I'm glad to see Kohler has come out with some competitively priced gensets. If Kolhler can start taking away some of Generac's market share maybe that will help bring Generac back to reality.

I installed a bunch of small 10 kw Kohler's for cell tower sites, they were much quieter than the Generacs,and no louder than an A/C unit. We did not do any of the maintance on these, so I don't know how well they held up.

 

[laketime]

I have installed several Generacs. They have worked fine and I made good money installing them. Of course I don't warranty them or do the service on them.

 

[fireryan]

As Chris has said your info is in the installation manual. Most of these units come with a 10ft whip on them from the gen. From the gen it goes to a supplied j-box. The ATS has a whip on it also that you run to the j-box. In the whip is your control wire and the feed wire. This is where you can get in trouble with 225.31 as this j-box is not a disconnect. As far as replacing breakers if my memory serves me right they are a standard Siemens breaker. The transfer switch doesn't switch the neutral so you would not need an additional g-rod. I will give you this advise read the instructions. When every thing is hooked up and you are ready for the start up there is a procedure for manually switching the ATS. If you do not follow those instructions the gen. will not crank.

Wouldnt the breaker on the side of the generator qualify as the disconnect?

 

[hillbilly1]

Wouldnt the breaker on the side of the generator qualify as the disconnect?

Generac, as with most generator manufactures have the breaker on the inside, so a cover would need to be opened. With that, the cover would probably be locked to keep out unauthorized personnel or vandals.

 

[ceb58]

Wouldnt the breaker on the side of the generator qualify as the disconnect?

The breaker doesn't comply with 225.32, 225.36, 445.18 and 702.11