404.6(c)Exception:The blades and terminals supplying the load of a switch shall be permitted to be enerzed when the switch is in the open position where the switch is connected to circuits or equipment inherently capable of providing a backfeed source of power.For such installations ,a permanent sign shall be installed..WARNING-LOAD SIDE TERMINALS MAY BE ENERGIZED BY BACKFEED..
Backward switch
- Thread starter Gaffen99
- Start date
- Status
404.6(c)Exception:The blades and terminals supplying the load of a switch shall be permitted to be enerzed when the switch is in the open position where the switch is connected to circuits or equipment inherently capable of providing a backfeed source of power.For such installations ,a permanent sign shall be installed..WARNING-LOAD SIDE TERMINALS MAY BE ENERGIZED BY BACKFEED..
L1, L2, L3 means Line to me. L is for line. What other word could it mean in the context of electrical equipement wiring? Well I guess it could mean Load, but if there are terminal markings T1, T2, T3 on the terminals on the other side of the switch, then L is for line (IMHO).
Last edited:
Lug 1, Lug 2, Lug 3 :grin:
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
The OP did not say this is a disconnect, he said switch.
Have you checked for continuity of the terminals for the load side when the switch is in the open position?
That is where my concern would be.
BTW:
You noticed the inconsistancy of the install, hopefully others who are working on it will as well. Professionals are generally very careful.
Have you checked for continuity of the terminals for the load side when the switch is in the open position?
That is where my concern would be.
BTW:
You noticed the inconsistancy of the install, hopefully others who are working on it will as well. Professionals are generally very careful.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Never, ever bet your life on an "industry standard". Gray=277 neutral, brown/orange/yellow=277 volts, black/red/blue=120 volts, the grounding conductor is always green (older guys will know this one) and hot is always on the top.
Many many myths still out there and even though many of them have been known to be false for years, they still pop up from time to time.
Many many myths still out there and even though many of them have been known to be false for years, they still pop up from time to time.
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Terminal?:roll:
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
T=top, L=lower
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
iaov
Senior Member
- Location
- Rhinelander WI
Possibly but most of this stuff is marked that it is to be serviced only by qualified persons. We typicaly have meters and use them.
I always thought the T comes from motor leads being called "T leads". And when used in a sentance "....connect the Motor T Leads...". I would think the T means terminal, so the sentance becomes "...connect the Motor Terminal Leads...".
It may not mean that to all, but in my experience when the terminations points are labeled, Lx, the line wires get connected to them, and those labeled Tx get the load side of the switch connected to them.
I would enforce this convention at my place of business, but would not stand on any code, just my business's specifications.
Last edited:
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
I'm not saying it doesn't meet code. I'm not saying it is something that is especially hazardous or problematic to any trained person who gets working on or near it. Nor would such an install pose any problem to me if I was to work on it, cause first I try to make sure I have all equipment de-energized when I work on it, and I test for energized connections even if I am sure something is off, cause you never know. What I was saying is that attorneys would have a field day with it, just like they did with McDonalds and the hot coffee lap lady. We know they would. Thats why I think any manufacturer who has such a device on the production line ought to think twice about letting it leave the lot. Just ask Toyota what can happen.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
So what does "T" stand for if the load side is not a motor then?
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
The only reason some attorney would have a field day with it, is because he will find some "expert witness" to say that the line always goes on top.
Trust me when I tell you that attorney's don't know squat about construction.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
You are absolutely correct on that.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
I know it is hard to kill urban legends.
I wish people would stop using the McDonald's coffee incident as an example of bad lawsuits. In reality it is probably an example of good and proper lawsuits. The reality is that McDonald's was serving coffee at dangerous (scalding) temperatures, a person was severely injured, and an unrealistic(?) damage award was reduced.
For one review: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
That said, to me L1, L2, L3, and T1, T2, T3 are simply terminal identification designations, no different than A, B, C, or 1, 2, 3 etc.
weressl
Esteemed Member
This is going to be an argument similar to the ground-prong orientation on the receptacles.
Few points.
- TBT is one of the 10 Electrical Commandments, as in Test Before Touch.
- Some argues that the visual convention and 'muscle memory' is important in the sense that we are used to see handles UP for ON and that moving the handle toward the ON position is expected to encounter resistance while turning it off is aided by the same spring that one charges on closing.
- The manufacturer may specifically identifies in their instructions that the L series terminals are for Line and T series are for Tap or Load connection. In that case, I would be hard pressed to install it differently, for legal reasons.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
If the terminals are actually marked as Line and Load, then the NEC and their Listing do require them to be installed as such.
weressl
Esteemed Member
Jim, do you think that I said something different?
- Status