Are Tandem CB's "Outlawed"?

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ptrombley

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A GE rep has informed me that the THQP (Tandem) circuit breaker is no longer available because "... Tandems have been outlawed due to overcrowding of panels...". I know the 2008 NEC has lifted the 42-overcurrent device limit for panelboards... but has anyone heard about this "outlawing" of tandems issue?
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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THQP breakers are not really tandems but are wafer breakers. I have not heard anything about that and I know I can get them from my supplier who I just called.
 
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curt swartz

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If you mean installing tandem breakers in positions that are not designed for tandem or 1/2 size breakers that is not possible with GE's THQP design. THQP's will only fit in the positions designed and listed for them to be in.
 
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ptrombley

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Not that issue Curt... he just made the general statement that tandems are not permitted. I really doubt this is the case. I sent an email to GE to verify, but was wondering if anyone was hearing this sort of thing from other manufacturers.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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ptrombley said:
Dennis, have you heard anything about "wafer" breakers being "outlawed"?
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I just called the GE factory where they are made and they said there is no truth to it. They will still be made. Now you could have a state law that may ban them but they would have to ban all tandems not just ge's wafer.
 
Sierrasparky

Sierrasparky

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Wonder if they are talking about Quad breakers with the outside handles on MWBC or a two pole abllication. I don't believe that they will common trip if that is a requirement in a certain application.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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lakee911 said:
What is the difference bettween a tandem breaker and wafer breaker?
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GE breaker are sized about half the width of a standard breaker so 2 fit in the place of one breaker. A tandem, one behind the other, is a full size breaker with 2 cb's built into it. There is also a twin which is a standard size breaker with 2 cb's side by side.

Sq. makes a tandem or used to.

Here is a twin breaker

140.jpg
 
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lakee911

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Columbus, OH
So a wafer is half a CB, a tandem is two (front and back) in one CB and a twin is two (side by side) in one CB.

How do CTL and non-CTL breakers and load centers fit into the picture?

Thx!
 
A/A Fuel GTX

A/A Fuel GTX

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lakee911 said:
What is the difference bettween a tandem breaker and wafer breaker?
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A tandem is actually a full sized breaker with two switches on it and a wafer is half the size of a regular breaker with one switch on it.

Sorry, I was REALLY late on this one.
 
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jim dungar

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lakee911 said:
How do CTL and non-CTL breakers and load centers fit into the picture?
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CTL stands for Circuit Limiting. This means that the panel and breakers includes features that prevent you from installing too many circuit.

UL has required all panels and breakers to be CTL design since at least 1968.

There is no official definition of the term 'tandem breaker', however it generically refers to the ability to mount two overcurrent protective devices into the space normally occupied by a single device. Square D used to build their tandem breakers in a 'front to back' design; about 20 years ago they switched to the more industry common side by side design but they still call them tandems. GE, and others, use a half thickness/width, or waver thin, design.
 
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lakee911

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jim dungar said:
CTL stands for Circuit Limiting. This means that the panel and breakers includes features that prevent you from installing too many circuit.

UL has required all panels and breakers to be CTL design since at least 1968.
Click to expand...

What's the reasoning here? I guess UL doesn't like the approach of "if the shoe fits, wear it."
 
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juptonstone

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Lady Lake, FL
Difference between tandem and wafer breaker

Difference between tandem and wafer breaker

A tandem breaker is a single "physical" 1" breaker that sits on a single post on the bus-bar, and has two seperate breaker handles. Depending on the manufacturer, they are available in 20/20, 20/15, 15/15, etc. Combinations.
A wafer breaker (as far as I know, only GE makes them), is a 1/2" breaker that shares a post with another 1/2" "wafer" breaker on the bus bar. Same idea... just two different configurations. The other option is the Quad... two, 2 pole breaker in a 2" configuration... Siemens offers the largest number of configurations (e.g. 20/30, 30/50, etc.)... Square D only offers a single configuration,which I believe is a 20/30.

Jeff
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
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Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
If they did outlaw those GE half space breakers I would never miss them, I have had such a high failure rate with them, from the 20 amp up, about the only nice feature of these panels is when you loose the connection point for the half space breaker, for every other breaker space there is a full 1" BR style stab buss which any BR type breaker will fit right in, and CH has a certified tandem for replacing these half space breakers with a full space tandem, this will give you the same amount of circuits, but with allot less of the problems with the stabs burning up , but then again I don't use GE, not a common panel for this area.:roll:
 
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