GFCI for venders

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jetlag

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Eatonton, Georgia
I have a customer wanting to use storage buildings on skids to furnish small sales places for venders to rent for the day. The buildings will be backed up agaist a fence in a straight row. I am thinking I will install a 100amp outside panel with 7 gfci breakers to supply the 7 buildings buildings with a 120v ,20 amp rec. outlet. The buildings will use a cord and plug . The code says I can install 15 #12 thnn conductors in a 3/4 " pvc . Can I run 7 hot , 7 neutral and only one #12 grounding conductor ?
The reason for the Gfci breakers is so I will only have to bury the conduit 12" , since the customer is going to dig the trench by hand
 
jetlag said:
I have a customer wanting to use storage buildings on skids to furnish small sales places for venders to rent for the day. The buildings will be backed up agaist a fence in a straight row. I am thinking I will install a 100amp outside panel with 7 gfci breakers to supply the 7 buildings buildings with a 120v ,20 amp rec. outlet. The buildings will use a cord and plug . The code says I can install 15 #12 thnn conductors in a 3/4 " pvc . Can I run 7 hot , 7 neutral and only one #12 grounding conductor ?
The reason for the Gfci breakers is so I will only have to bury the conduit 12" , since the customer is going to dig the trench by hand
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IMO, the 12" rule (if gfi protected) is for residential only, and also, it only applies to a single 20 amp circuit, not multiple circuits in your case.
 
And with 14 current carrying conductors you will need to up size the conductors.

I would use GFCI receptacles not breakers.
 
thanks mcclary

thanks mcclary

mcclary's electrical said:
IMO, the 12" rule (if gfi protected) is for residential only, and also, it only applies to a single 20 amp circuit, not multiple circuits in your case.
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Well so much for 12'' trench, I didnt go back and read the code before posting, in that case I will use GFCI rec. outlets and not the breakers. Will the one #12 EGC be enough for all 7 circuits ?
 
jetlag said:
Well so much for 12'' trench, I didnt go back and read the code before posting, in that case I will use GFCI rec. outlets and not the breakers. Will the one #12 EGC be enough for all 7 circuits ?
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Like iwire said, if you're running 14 current-carrying conductors in one conduit you'll have to derate them per 310.15(B)(2)(a) and thus probably upsize them. If you upsize the ungrounded conductors then you'd probably need to upsize the EGC as well per 250.122(B).

Kinda gettin' into a big ol' wad of wire there.
 
Why not install 3 multiwire branch circuits plus one regular circuit?

Assuming 120/240 single phase, of course, you'd be down to 8 CCCs and be back out from under derating. The only difference would be buying two pole breakers instead.
 
ericsherman37 said:
Like iwire said, if you're running 14 current-carrying conductors in one conduit you'll have to derate them per 310.15(B)(2)(a) and thus probably upsize them. If you upsize the ungrounded conductors then you'd probably need to upsize the EGC as well per 250.122(B).

Kinda gettin' into a big ol' wad of wire there.
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Im not sure but he might just have to promise them 1200 watt each . that way can put two recepts on each circuit and reduce to 8 current conductors and 1 EGC. I rather stay away from the multi wire branch circuits when possible.
 
jetlag said:
Im not sure but he might just have to promise them 1200 watt each . that way can put two recepts on each circuit and reduce to 8 current conductors and 1 EGC. I rather stay away from the multi wire branch circuits when possible.
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*hypnotizing* Look into my eyes, and repeat after me, Shared neutrals are evil, Shared neutrals are bad, shared neutrals are evil. No to shared neutrals!! ;)
 
thanks george

thanks george

George Stolz said:
Why not install 3 multiwire branch circuits plus one regular circuit?

Assuming 120/240 single phase, of course, you'd be down to 8 CCCs and be back out from under derating. The only difference would be buying two pole breakers instead.
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Explain, I am counting 11 ccc's that way
 
brother said:
*hypnotizing* Look into my eyes, and repeat after me, Shared neutrals are evil, Shared neutrals are bad, shared neutrals are evil. No to shared neutrals!! ;)
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If you cut the neutral off it will not be shared:grin::grin::grin::grin:
 
jetlag said:
Im not sure but he might just have to promise them 1200 watt each . that way can put two recepts on each circuit and reduce to 8 current conductors and 1 EGC. I rather stay away from the multi wire branch circuits when possible.
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Why would you do that? Don't you know how to do electrical work correctly? :grin:
 
brother said:
This was only for the branch circuits. not the main service or feeders.
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Why?

There is no difference at all electrically.

What I am saying is why does the installation of an overcurrrent device turn the safe practice of sharing a neutral for services and feeders into an unsafe condition with branch circuits?

If a service neutral opens it effects the entire building, if a branch circuit neutral opens up it only effects that circuit.
 
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jetlag said:
The code says I can install 15 #12 thnn conductors in a 3/4 " pvc . Can I run 7 hot , 7 neutral and only one #12 grounding conductor ?
Click to expand...


Once the ditch work is finished running the PVC conduit is not only easy it is cheap. So why worry about getting everything in one conduit. Run a second conduit and maybe even a spare for future use.
 
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