No contract

Status
Not open for further replies.
laketime

laketime

Senior Member
Supposed to start a new project on Monday and the GC still hasn't given me a contract because they are waiting for the owner to sign it. Makes me wonder how long it will take the owner to sign the checks :-? I have a "no contract no starting work" policy for my business. Any comments about starting without a contract?
 
Last summer a repeat customer wanted some landscape lighting relocated that was lining the driving. I removed the wiring and installed new Low Voltage cable along the fence line, The husband came home and all of sudden the next day there was no communication with the customer. I was about 1000.00 into this job, and the husband refused to let his wife pay me saying he didn't like the way i was doing stuff to code and said he didn't get any value. I didn't have a contract as i had never needed one with this customer she usually signed a check the same day.
 
laketime said:
Supposed to start a new project on Monday and the GC still hasn't given me a contract because they are waiting for the owner to sign it. Makes me wonder how long it will take the owner to sign the checks :-? I have a "no contract no starting work" policy for my business. Any comments about starting without a contract?
Click to expand...

The reason they call us electrical contractors is we secure jobs with contracts, if the GC does not sign that is one big red flag, but in todays times many EC run back into the fire rather then run for the exits.
 
satcom said:
The reason they call us electrical contractors is we secure jobs with contracts, if the GC does not sign that is one big red flag, but in todays times many EC run back into the fire rather then run for the exits.
Click to expand...

EP, Electrical Promiser?
 
"... didn't like the way I was doing stuff to code." I like that line!

Let's clarify things; you DID have a contract - it's just not written down. This means there's a lot more room for misunderstandings as to exactly what the contract represented.

It's one thing to change a light bulb for a regular customer without spelling it all out; it's another when there is a major job with multiple layers between you and the guy who writes the check.

Another contractor knows how business is conducted. There's no excuse for him to not have signed and returned the paper.

What to do? Stay home and play dumb. When he calls, tell him that, since he didn't get back to you, that you assumed he had chosen someone else. If you're on another job when he calls, so much the better.

Poor planning/ game playing on his part does not make it an emergency on your part - and make sure to collect extra $$$$ if any of his efforts (before you're on the job) make more work for you.
 
electricguy said:
Last summer a repeat customer wanted some landscape lighting relocated that was lining the driving. I removed the wiring and installed new Low Voltage cable along the fence line, The husband came home and all of sudden the next day there was no communication with the customer. I was about 1000.00 into this job, and the husband refused to let his wife pay me saying he didn't like the way i was doing stuff to code and said he didn't get any value. I didn't have a contract as i had never needed one with this customer she usually signed a check the same day.
Click to expand...

He did not get any Value. Are you kidding. I dollar of material and one dollar of labor constitues value. Did you do what the woman asked. Then you have value. He must pay.
If you live in a state where you must have a written contract, you could be in trouble with them. In most cases they find out.
 
laketime said:
Supposed to start a new project on Monday and the GC still hasn't given me a contract because they are waiting for the owner to sign it. Makes me wonder how long it will take the owner to sign the checks :-? I have a "no contract no starting work" policy for my business. Any comments about starting without a contract?
Click to expand...

lots of ec's (myself included) do lots of jobs without contracts....you just do not hear about it on this site because it gives the "self righteous know it alls" a chance to mock you and make themselves look smart as the preach basic business 101 to you... i can feel the pain of cyber bullying coming my way already.............now to the OP who is asking a question... my answer to him would be "it depends on how much of a financial hit your firm can take before before your firm is in ruins...for example you start the job without a contract and work say 10 men for two weeks and use two weeks worth of material ...at this time you realize you got to "cut bait" and pull out before you really get hurt..the job is not going as planned and you will only lose more money....if you can treat this as a cost of doing business you will be fine....sure you have lost some money but you know if you were going to be held to a contract you could not walk away...now you have the option of walking away and mitigating damages...or renegotiating a more favorable deal..
 
Tell the GC you need him to email you a "letter of intent". Stipulating that GC "X" intends to enter into contract with sub "Y" for "$Z" dollars. That's a contract.

If they won't do that, I would worry about this GC.
Have you done work for them in the past?
 
If you do work for someone they must pay you contract or no contract, even if you didn't have a contractors license they must pay you. You can yay or nay it if you want, but I saw the court case on that one.

And Sierrasparky is correct to, in the State of California an oral contract is enforceable.
 
cowboyjwc said:
If you do work for someone they must pay you contract or no contract, even if you didn't have a contractors license they must pay you. You can yay or nay it if you want, but I saw the court case on that one.

And Sierrasparky is correct to, in the State of California an oral contract is enforceable.
Click to expand...

How does a court enforce an illegal contract?
 
laketime said:
Supposed to start a new project on Monday and the GC still hasn't given me a contract because they are waiting for the owner to sign it. Makes me wonder how long it will take the owner to sign the checks :-? I have a "no contract no starting work" policy for my business. Any comments about starting without a contract?
Click to expand...

if this job is expected to have a contract then I would wait to start until you have a signed contract. The GC shouldn't expect any more out of you. If the GC started without a contract that is his own fault. If he goes back to the owner and tells them "my subs won't start without a contract" maybe that will light a fire. I wouldn't be worried about losing this job because you won't work without a contract.

We do plenty of jobs without contract and plenty with contracts. I use email confirmation all the time when there is no written contract - at least I have the approval in an email if there is an issue with payment.
 
cowboyjwc said:
If you do work for someone they must pay you contract or no contract, even if you didn't have a contractors license they must pay you. You can yay or nay it if you want, but I saw the court case on that one.

And Sierrasparky is correct to, in the State of California an oral contract is enforceable.
Click to expand...

480sparky said:
How does a court enforce an illegal contract?
Click to expand...

That's a good question.
From what I understand for an oral contract the parties must have a "meeting of the minds" IE.... I will do this for this amount of $. OK I will pay your $ amount for this work.
But here on the right coast if the work requires a licensed contractor, builder, elect., HVAC or plumber and some one who is not licensed dose the work and the customer doesn't pay. The unlicensed person has no standing in court to file suit. In a nut shell you cannot break the law and profit from it also.

As to the orignal question no contract no work. You could contact the owner directly and ask about the hold up in the contract. Tell them you need to do scheduling and mobilization.
 
ceb58 said:
That's a good question.
From what I understand for an oral contract the parties must have a "meeting of the minds" IE..........
Click to expand...

If the law requires a person to obtain a contractors' license, and they do not, any contract they enter into, whether written or oral, is illegal. Courts cannot and do not uphold illegal contracts.
 
....

As to the orignal question no contract no work. You could contact the owner directly and ask about the hold up in the contract. Tell them you need to do scheduling and mobilization.
Click to expand...

Hold on now, if they have no contract they have no right to contact anyone, the OP is to be a sub contractor and there in relationship to the GC. This action you speak of could put the Laketime in an odded relationship with the GC.

I don't think this suggestion is proper at all, I know I wouldn't do it.
 
480sparky said:
If the law requires a person to obtain a contractors' license, and they do not, any contract they enter into, whether written or oral, is illegal. Courts cannot and do not uphold illegal contracts.
Click to expand...
You are correct. In Ca not only is a contract oral or written for 500.00 or more not enforceble the project owner may sue for the entire amount paid plus damages. I would suspect that is not the case in all states. I also know that some judges do not uphold the current law here in Ca as I have see unlicensed persons sue and get paid because the Owner did not affirm the law to the judge or was not allowed to clarify it to the judge.
 
I have never used contracts and have no plans to in the future.

If I can't close a deal with a handshake, then I don't want the job.

A dirtbag is going to screw you with or without a contract.

Pay the money to hire a lawyer, go to court and win a judgment, and then try to collect... you will get nothing.

The guy will go belly up faster than it takes the ink to dry.
 
laketime said:
Supposed to start a new project on Monday and the GC still hasn't given me a contract because they are waiting for the owner to sign it. Makes me wonder how long it will take the owner to sign the checks :-? I have a "no contract no starting work" policy for my business. Any comments about starting without a contract?
Click to expand...

See Larry's comments in another thread about a DIY root canal for reference...

BLACK4TRUCK said:
I have never used contracts and have no plans to in the future.

If I can't close a deal with a handshake, then I don't want the job.

A dirtbag is going to screw you with or without a contract.

Pay the money to hire a lawyer, go to court and win a judgment, and then try to collect... you will get nothing.

The guy will go belly up faster than it takes the ink to dry.
Click to expand...

My Dad was like that, but that was back in the day when a handshake WAS an agreement...after he got screwed a few times he/we wised up. My philosophy reflects that of Ronald Reagan, "Trust, but verify". Even if you are doing a T & M repair job, I would have some type of form with the work to be done specified, permission to do the work signed by the owner/GC, with a credit card number. If they refuse, sorry about their bad luck....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top