Square D breakers..

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B4T

B4T

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Long Island, N.Y.
I am not familiar with the brand.. are there voltage limitations on their (3) pole bolt on line

I am pricing a job where voltage is 277/460 and getting conflicting information from supply house that one size fits all..
 
J

jim dungar

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BLACK4TRUCK said:
Some have 250V max.. some have 600V max rating
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Yeah just like most other equipment.:)

Major manufacturers build bolt-on breakers in both of these voltage ratings.
Some manufacturers make a single panelboard that covers all voltages, and the choice of breaker dictates the final voltage rating.
Some manufacturers use 600Vmax equipment of 240V systems as one way of getting 'higher' AIC ratings.
 
B4T

B4T

Senior Member
Location
Long Island, N.Y.
Jim dun gar said:
Yeah just like most other equipment.:)

Major manufacturers build bolt-on breakers in both of these voltage ratings.
Some manufacturers make a single panel board that covers all voltages, and the choice of breaker dictates the final voltage rating.
Some manufacturers use Max equipment of V systems as one way of getting 'higher' AC ratings.
Click to expand...

Thank - you.. that is the info I was looking for.

Hate to make a mistake in ordering and pricing because then I get to do it twice.. :mad:
 
iwire

iwire

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BLACK4TRUCK said:
No catalog... just a (3) pole Sq. D bolt on breaker that going in a 460V panel
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You will need more info.

There are a number of different Square D breakers rated for 480 volt systems.

For instance a 3 pole 100 amp I-Line breaker with a high AIC may run a couple of grand so make sure you know what the job needs.

Do not price yourself into a hole.
 
B4T

B4T

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Location
Long Island, N.Y.
iwire said:
You will need more info.

There are a number of different Square D breakers rated for 480 volt systems.

For instance a 3 pole 100 amp I-Line breaker with a high AIC may run a couple of grand so make sure you know what the job needs.

Do not price yourself into a hole.
Click to expand...

Bob.. what about a (3) pole 30 amp.. which is what I need

Are there any wild numbers like with the 100 amp. you mentioned?
 
renosteinke

renosteinke

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Location
NE Arkansas
Why does this thread scare me? let me count the ways ....

OK, no one can know 'all' the breaker lines of every manufacturer .... but Square D is prevalent enough that I would expect every electrician in the US and Canada to be familiar with their name at least.

Next, EVERY breaker has voltage limitations, and they are pretty plainly marked. Plus, EVERY breaker manufacturer has different product lines for 480v and 240v equipment. Square D alone has at least five different breaker lines - and the most common two (Homeline and QO) are most definitely limited to 240v. Again, no electrician should be in any doubt on this topic.

At some point, a question becomes so basic that one is best advised to stay away. I think this is such a case - if you've never worked with 480 or industrial jobs before, now is NOT the time to go it solo.

A man's got to know his limitations.
 
iwire

iwire

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BLACK4TRUCK said:
Bob.. what about a (3) pole 30 amp.. which is what I need

Are there any wild numbers like with the 100 amp. you mentioned?
Click to expand...

A 3 pole 30 for a Square D I line panel with a high AIC rating could be very expensive.

But there are other types of Squre D panels.

You really need to detemine the catalog number of the breaker you need and get a price on it.

As soon as you go above 250 volts you start opaying a lot more for breakers and if you need a high AIC rating the price jumps some more.

How do you know the needed AIC? Well if you do not have an engineer to do the calculations for you it can be tough.

I will probably get slammed for this but many times I just match or exceed the AIC ratings of the breakers already in the panel I am adding one too.

If you do not make sure the breaker has a high enough AIC rating it could pretty much turn into a grenade if the circuit shorts out.

In general, the closer you are to the transformer supplying the panel the higher the available fault current is. (This is a huge oversimplification)

For instance I had to get a I-Line breaker with a 65K AIC (A typical home breaker is 10K) rating because the panel was supplied by a huge UPS capable of supplying very high fault currents.

The other issue is ............ plan to shut the panel down, do not try to install a 3 pole bolt on breaker into a hot 480 panel, sure it can be done but if it goes wrong it will get very bad, very fast.

One more thing, all of the above applies to all makes of breakers, not just Square D.
 
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B4T

B4T

Senior Member
Location
Long Island, N.Y.
iwire said:
A 3 pole 30 for a Square D I line panel with a high AIC rating could be very expensive.

But there are other types of Squre D panels.

You really need to detemine the catalog number of the breaker you need and get a price on it.

As soon as you go above 250 volts you start opaying a lot more for breakers and if you need a high AIC rating the price jumps some more.

How do you know the needed AIC? Well if you do not have an engineer to do the calculations for you it can be tough.

I will probably get slammed for this but many times I just match or exceed the AIC ratings of the breakers already in the panel I am adding one too.

If you do not make sure the breaker has a high enough AIC rating it could pretty much turn into a grenade if the circuit shorts out.

In general, the closer you are to the transformer supplying the panel the higher the available fault current is. (This is a huge oversimplification)

For instance I had to get a I-Line breaker with a 65K AIC (A typical home breaker is 10K) rating because the panel was supplied by a huge UPS capable of supplying very high fault currents.

The other issue is ............ plan to shut the panel down, do not try to install a 3 pole bolt on breaker into a hot 480 panel, sure it can be done but if it goes wrong it will get very bad, very fast.

One more thing, all of the above applies to all makes of breakers, not just Square D.
Click to expand...

Bob.. thanks for taking the time to tell me this info.. it fills in a lot of questions I had.

I spent (3) hours just looking for ways of running wires from point to point and not enough time copying model numbers from existing equipment.
 
J

jim dungar

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Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
BLACK4TRUCK said:
I spent (3) hours just looking for ways of running wires from point to point and not enough time copying model numbers from existing equipment.
Click to expand...
I hope the equipment you are adding to is of a current design. For example, Square D NEHB 480Y/277V lighting panels use type EHB bolt-in breakers which have been obsolete for 10years or so.
 
B4T

B4T

Senior Member
Location
Long Island, N.Y.
jim dungar said:
I hope the equipment you are adding to is of a current design. For example, Square D NEHB 480Y/277V lighting panels use type EHB bolt-in breakers which have been obsolete for 10years or so.
Click to expand...

The building was built in 2006, but I am copying that info for future use.. thanks
 
iwire

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
Could be a EDB, but it's just a guess.

In this example the catalog number is at the top right under the D

EDB2P.jpg


Here are some prices http://www.google.com/products?q=sq...ent=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wf looks like about a grand for a three pole
 
B4T

B4T

Senior Member
Location
Long Island, N.Y.
Bob.. turns out you nailed the right breaker.. it goes into a NF panelboard.

One of the breakers needs to be Shunt Trip.. it controls a blower motor.

Normally do you get the 120V needed directly from FA panel or do you go to nearest ST. and pigtail off of there.

My supply house quoted me a price of $185.00 for the wrong breaker yesterday.

These guys have it for $600.00 and another $200.00 for ST.

http://www.relectric.com/landing.asp?pg=sqd&kty=104928203&gclid=CMT0kfO93aQCFdJL5QodmU-zMw

So far you have saved me about $1,000.00 not including labor costs.. do you want that in cash or check.. :D
 
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