Nuclear power

[BJ Conner]

National Ignition Facility

National Ignition Facility

Here's a website on the National Ignition Facility. There are lots of electricans working there right now, lots of everybody else too.

https://lasers.llnl.gov/

France and some other countries can do things we can't. We have to many lawyers and just one can keep throwing the monkey wrench back in the works.

 

[ericsherman37]

Frankly, I don't think we'll get that far anyway; peak oil is a geologic certainty, the only question is when, and once peak oil kicks in, I think the world is going to get to be an ugly place.

Absolutely agreed. All we ever hear about in the mainstream is that "energy independence" equates "drilling for oil in OUR region." That's not energy independence, it's just delaying the inevitable.

After we dump billions and billions of dollars into squeezing more oil out of the ground - even past the point of economic infeasibility (more energy in than energy out) - what will we have to show for it? A few more decades living the high life of cheap energy and then worldwide industry sputtering to a halt.

It's not news that oil is a finite resource. Everyone knows that. Just no one wants to admit when that end is actually approaching. For such an advanced species we're awfully short-sighted.

 

[LEO2854]

Absolutely agreed. All we ever hear about in the mainstream is that "energy independence" equates "drilling for oil in OUR region." That's not energy independence, it's just delaying the inevitable.

After we dump billions and billions of dollars into squeezing more oil out of the ground - even past the point of economic infeasibility (more energy in than energy out) - what will we have to show for it? A few more decades living the high life of cheap energy and then worldwide industry sputtering to a halt.

It's not news that oil is a finite resource. Everyone knows that. Just no one wants to admit when that end is actually approaching. For such an advanced species we're awfully short-sighted.

so is it your solution to make the use of energy so exspesive that regular people can't afford it ?

 

[ericsherman37]

so is it your solution to make the use of energy so exspesive that regular people can't afford it ?

Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to this issue. I'm not smart enough

The point is, energy will likely become expensive all on its own, whether we do anything about it or not. Oil production is peaking and will begin to decline... leaving 6 billion people and the inertia of a globalized industrial world economy to begin deconstructing itself.

U.S. oil production peaked in the 70s. Saudi oil production is likely peaking now or in the near future (no one knows for sure: 1) You can't see the peak till after you pass it, and 2) the Saudis and other OPEC members regularly fabricate production numbers, so who knows what's really going on). World oil production will likely follow suit in the not-too-distant future, with no viable replacement energy source anywhere near advanced enough to sustain modern civilization at its current levels.

So it has nothing to do with environmentalists banning SUVs or Obama restricting oil production or whatever. Politicians can't conjure up energy out of thin air. Just a function of, 1) how much oil is left in the ground? 2) where is it and who owns it? 3) how hard is it to get out of the ground (as in, does it take two barrels of oil worth of energy to extract one barrel of oil). Looks grim on that front, to me.

Some blogs for your perusal:

http://www.theoildrum.com/
http://www.kunstler.com/blog/
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
http://www.peakoil.com/

There's a slew of good books on the subject, check amazon.com

 

[LEO2854]

Here's a website on the National Ignition Facility. There are lots of electricans working there right now, lots of everybody else too.

https://lasers.llnl.gov/

France and some other countries can do things we can't. We have to many lawyers and just one can keep throwing the monkey wrench back in the works.

Thanks for the link. it is very intersting work going on there

 

[zog]

Saudi oil production is likely peaking now or in the near future (no one knows for sure:

Saudis are very close to running oil, very close. That is why they are building all of these tourist attractions, prepearing thier economy with a new source of income.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

I am also in the camp of the peak oil prediction is real. When I try to talk to people about it, it seems they think I'm saying we will run out of oil (like it's just going to stop 100% immediately). It's really amazing how many people don't understand it.

 

[bluesmoke...oops]

For such an advanced species we're awfully short-sighted.

Because in the long run, our lives are very very short.

 

[Cmdr_Suds]

You need to do a little more reading and not just all from one source.

It is not the doom and gloom you present.

Maybe you should do some extracurricular reading

It's not as rosy as most people want it to be.

In my experience, when you have two extreme points of view, the truth is usally somewhere in the middle.

Here is a link to an interesting article about a new type of nuclear reactor:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/energy/nuclear/is-thorium-the-nuclear-fuel-of-the-future

As for as the oil runnig out debate, dont forget there is even more coal then oil left out there. granted its dirtier, but they are developing newer way to burn it. Look at Duke energy's Edwardsport coal gasification project.

 

[zog]

I am also in the camp of the peak oil prediction is real. When I try to talk to people about it, it seems they think I'm saying we will run out of oil (like it's just going to stop 100% immediately). It's really amazing how many people don't understand it.

I thought the comparison to water in the human body was a good way to explain it.

 

[BJ Conner]

Gasification

Gasification

In my experience, when you have two extreme points of view, the truth is usally somewhere in the middle.

Here is a link to an interesting article about a new type of nuclear reactor:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/energy/nuclear/is-thorium-the-nuclear-fuel-of-the-future

As for as the oil runnig out debate, dont forget there is even more coal then oil left out there. granted its dirtier, but they are developing newer way to burn it. Look at Duke energy's Edwardsport coal gasification project.

http://www.dakotagas.com/
They have been turning coal (lignite = brown dirt) into natural gas here for 24 years. The process is the Lurgi process that was used by Germany in WWII and South Africa. There are a lot of bi-products made in the process one of which is CO2.
The CO2 is piped to the Willsiton basin and Canada to aid in extraction of oil.
There is a lot of lignite under NoDak. There probably be more gasification plants built. The Bakken oil field will probably use CO2 for recovery.


















http://www.dakotagas.com/

 

[dbuckley]

Cool that there are a lot of peak oil aware folk on this forum.

so is it your solution to make the use of energy so exspesive that regular people can't afford it ?

That is what is going to happen.

As oil becomes less plentiful, supply and demand will ensure that the price of oil derived stuff (and thats a lot of things, not just gas and diesel, but plastics, fertilizers, drugs, the list goes on) all goes up. And as transport costs go up, then so will the costs of stuff we as consumers buy.

Now if the price of petrochemicals were to be raised now, then there is suggestion that we (the big we) will adjust our lifestyles to accommodate the transition to a less oil-filled world.

As a personal example, my home is almost entirely lit by CFCs and fluorescent lights, because as a proportion of income, electricity in NZ is expensive, and I choose to give less of my money to the utilities.

I commute a fair way to work, so I've bought a tiny car that uses less gas, and have also persuaded my employer that I can work from home a few days a week, so I don't need to do the drive at all sometimes.

As the prices of energy rises, people will make choices more wisely. If energy is so cheap that it's not noticeable in the budget, then it is paid no attention.

 

[ericsherman37]

As for as the oil runnig out debate, dont forget there is even more coal then oil left out there. granted its dirtier, but they are developing newer way to burn it. Look at Duke energy's Edwardsport coal gasification project.

Sure, but that brings up a couple more questions. One-hundred years ago people were saying that oil was limitless. Now here we are staring peak oil in the face.

So if we go around saying coal is effectively limitless - and with a lower energy density than crude oil to boot - then the problem is just postponed. If we say, "Well clean coal can tide us over until we can perfect a TRUE renewable energy source," then that's willful ignorance, because if we get into another cheap, abundant energy source like coal, then we'll just get back into the same ol' habits of consumption, and that energy source will dry up real quick.

I've heard a good analogy for humans and oil: sugar and yeast. Stick a few yeast spores in a petri dish with sugar... glucose or whatever yeast eats... and their population will explode because of the abundant supply of energy. Their population will grow exponentially and spread through the petri dish, finding more sugar deposits and growing more. But eventually, the discovery of new sugar deposits will peak - the yeast will still be devouring the ones they've already found, and still be growing in population - but after some period of time the supply of discovered sugar will peak and begin to decline. Now there's an existing population of a few billion yeasts with an energy/food supply that is rapidly dwindling. What will happen?

Here's the kicker: In the United States, discovery of new oil deposits peaked in the 1930s. About 40 years later, production of oil in the United States peaked. Worldwide discoveries of new oil deposits peaked in the 1960s. So here we are, about 40 - 50 years later. Right on track for peak production. I jacked that information from here.

 

[mlnk]

read about the pebble bed reactors, also called HTR. Much cheaper, much safetr to build than a conventional nuclear.