Basement Rough, Trim

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Got a call from a homeowner wanting a quote for wireing his basement, in talking with him he wants me to pull permit and do rough in then he will do the trim his self on my permit, i guess the question is can i do the rough and get inspection then let homeowner pull a trim permit to finish, or should i just not take the job at all.
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
If he does a bad job on the finish and burns the house down he will blame the electrician when your insurance company asks who wired the basement.
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
In many areas that would be against the law.

What state? In Ohio homeowners are allowed to work on their own (personal residence) home.

However I would say that if you did the work (pulled the permit) you would be responsible for the installation.

In your area could the homeowner hire you as a 'sub' and could they pull the permit?
 
It is in Colo. i am simply just not wanting to do the work at all the best thing i can do is call the city and talk with them on it before we even get started on it. Do not need the work have enough now just did not want to turn any away.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
If you asked me I wouldn't do it. Really, trusting a HO to do finish work on your permit backed by your license and insurance? Inspections don't always turn up serious violation so don't be lulled into a false sense of security because it passed inspection.

Welcome to the Forum. :)
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
If I pull a permit for the job, the job is my responsibility and my liability. If the owner screws up my work and burns his house down, my insurance must pay.

Unless I can do a turnkey job, I'm not interested.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Apollo. welcome to the forum! :)

Got a call from a homeowner wanting a quote for wireing his basement, in talking with him he wants me to pull permit and do rough in then he will do the trim his self on my permit, i guess the question is can i do the rough and get inspection then let homeowner pull a trim permit to finish, or should i just not take the job at all.
I would tell him that the liability outweighs the trim-out work, and, while I could do what he asks, the price will be the same/higher (whichever you'd rather tell him), so there'd be no advantage for him.
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
A customer's house burns down, and the fire marshal says it was electrical. So the HO's insurance company goes to city hall and see if a permit was pulled. Sure enough, there's one with MY name on it.

NOW, tell me I'm not gonna pay.

Unless they can show it was YOU that did the work they are not going to pay. Insurance companies are great at not paying. That's what they are in business for.

You're nuts if you think you own all electrical work done in a house subsequent to taking out a permit. Who would be stupid enough to take that risk. I sure as hell wouldn't.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Unless they can show it was YOU that did the work they are not going to pay. Insurance companies are great at not paying. That's what they are in business for.


That's right. I did the work. The permit proves that. Now the HO's insurance company is going to collect payment from MY insurance company. MY insurance company can't find anyone else who is liable, so I either get stuck with higher premiums or become uninsurable.


You're nuts if you think you own all electrical work done in a house subsequent to taking out a permit. Who would be stupid enough to take that risk. I sure as hell wouldn't.

Believe it or not, that's the way it is. Whoever was the last one to touch anything electrical in the house pays.
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
I don't think what the OP posted is that unusual of a request. I do this all the time in varying forms. People think they save money by having me wire a box and they put up the fixture or fan after the fact. ;)
Just did this yesterday. Ceiling box over island, blank plate, done.
Doing one this week for a kitchen project. The guy will put up the fan himself.

It's noted in the contract that they sign. Of all the things that keep me up at night this isn't one of them.
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Believe it or not, that's the way it is. Whoever was the last one to touch anything electrical in the house pays.

I don't believe it. There's no reason to.

I worked in sweet house a few years back. They had a fire (insert jokes here) $1.5 Mil in damages. I was the last to work there, a ton of work in fact in the fire area and never even received so much as a phone call about it.

Edit:

It was electrical too. Supposedly rope lighting or some crap.
 
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growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
he wants me to pull permit and do rough in then he will do the trim his self on my permit.

In many areas that would be against the law.

Bob is right and doing it that way would be illegal but the authorities may OK the permit if the homeowner pulls his own permit for the final.

The first question to ask is just who is pulling the building permit.

There is a tricky part here. Just who is going to terminate the circuits and make them live. I don't make anything live on the rough.

The best idea is either to leave the job alone or talk him into letting you do the whole thing because the money the homeowner will save isn't going to be that much. As a matter of fact it's probably going to cost more when he starts paying to get the mess he makes straightened out.
 

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
I was a fire inspector in my previous life. If the Cause was electrical and the origin was a receptacle, then the receptacle was to blame.

If I determine that bad wiring at the receptacle was the cause, then the dummy who last touched it, is to blame.

But that would require the fire inspector bringing in the EI (or another qualified person) and consulting with him to confirm such findings.

.

If an insurance company read the report written by the investigator (only done 50% or less) they might be able to assign blame.

I don't know how the insurance companies handle it internally, but I know they higher private investigators to determine cause and origin a lot. Those guys may, or may not have a clue as to what they are looking at electrically.

The labeling "electrical" does not damn the last electrician that touched it, at least not from a criminal court of law perspective. I can establish a reasonable doubt that I was the last one to touch is as an electrician. Since I was not in the home every day to watch over the HO, who knows what they did.

In civil court, the preponderance of evidence is easier to make it look like the last EC was at fault, but the Fire Investigators report, if properly written and detailed enough with the EI consult, would refute that, if you were not at fault, or it would put you on the hook
 
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