Panel in a closet

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M

mcelweec@gmail.com

CMAC1
Location
NYC
Occupation
Electrician
Yes a clothes closet,with a hinged access door which satisfies all clearance issues.The question is whether this is considered a separate room?
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
The issue is not the door, its the fact that no mater what, you still have a panel in a closet with OCPD's that can cause a fire because of easily ignitable materials that we store in it, putting a door over it will not change this fact no more then hanging a picture over it will, If you stand in the closet to access the panel then it is in the closet, would you allow a panel in a bathroom if a door was put over it?

I have seen some real good panel fires that if it were installed in a closet the house would not still be there.

Now think about liability issues if something was to happen, how would it stand up in court? <<<<<Best question to always ask.
 
M

mcelweec@gmail.com

CMAC1
Location
NYC
Occupation
Electrician
No the fact is it is not in a closet until the door is opened,therefore it is under supervision when the door is open ,therefore is it a fire hazard?
 
acrwc10

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
mcelweec@gmail.com said:
No the fact is it is not in a closet until the door is opened,therefore it is under supervision when the door is open ,therefore is it a fire hazard?
Click to expand...

There is no exception for the installation you are describing. Is this a situation that occurred or a hypothetical scenario?
 
acrwc10

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
mcelweec@gmail.com said:
Hypothetical,with the basic question,define a room?
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Well that is like asking "how long is a piece of string?" If you look in the building code you will find a definition of a "habitable room" but this is a "mechanical space" with that you would need a 30" wide by 36'' deep by 74" high room with a door separating it from the closet to consider it not the closet. If it is behind an access panel, it is in the room that the access panel is in. That is about as good a definition as I can give you.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I know that no one else reads the section the way I do, but I don't read it as a blanket prohibition on installing a panel in a clothes closet. The rule says that you cannot install a panel in the "vicinity of easily ignitible material". The clothes closet is just an example of a location that may be in the vicinity of easily ignitible material. I have seen clothes closets big enough that the panel could be installed an not be in the vicinity of easily ignitable material.
 
acrwc10

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
don_resqcapt19 said:
I know that no one else reads the section the way I do, but I don't read it as a blanket prohibition on installing a panel in a clothes closet. The rule says that you cannot install a panel in the "vicinity of easily ignitible material". The clothes closet is just an example of a location that may be in the vicinity of easily ignitible material. I have seen clothes closets big enough that the panel could be installed an not be in the vicinity of easily ignitable material.
Click to expand...

Agreed but you don't want to install, and then have the inspector turn down the job. Since the "clothes closet" is given as an example it is going to be taken by all but a very few inspectors to mean all clothes closets.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
don_resqcapt19 said:
I know that no one else reads the section the way I do, but I don't read it as a blanket prohibition on installing a panel in a clothes closet. The rule says that you cannot install a panel in the "vicinity of easily ignitible material". The clothes closet is just an example of a location that may be in the vicinity of easily ignitible material. I have seen clothes closets big enough that the panel could be installed an not be in the vicinity of easily ignitable material.
Click to expand...

I have also see panels installed in basement or mechanical rooms that are packed full of easily ignitable material and no one ever questions anything because it is not a "clothes closet"
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
We can't help what others place in the work area. I even seen a gas bottleing plant put filled tanks in front of panels. Fact is NEC uses clothes closet as 1 of the areas not to put a panel. Being it was common years ago it must have been an issue to change it.
If you think yours is an exception i suggest you call your inspector.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The problem is it says:

"Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitible material"

There is no definition of boundaries for the vicinity and only one example of what may be easily ignitable.

"such as in clothes closets"

That gives many people the impression that if there are clothes stored there then no overcurrent devices are allowed in the room period.

Yet the same people will let a panelboard be installed right next to a stack of paper, cardboard, in a laundry room where there may be clothes storage even if it is just a pile of laundry on the floor waiting to be washed.

Panels are installed in garages all the time and there frequently is a lot of easily ignitable materials in garages including cans of gasoline.
 
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