I know all about your CEE don't worry

[jwjrw]

We are doing a storage building and were planning to install a small panel in it with 6 circuits. Steps were being built out of brick and attached to the house and the storage building on the other side. My conduit into building under them. I had that inspected but the foundation for garage was not dug yet. I told the GC I need you to turn a piece of re bar 20 ft long up in the wall and call me so I can get my CCE inspected before you pour it. Yea Yea I know all about that I'll handle it...........Well he only gets a multi wire circuit now as he DID NOT DO IT and garage is built. When I was asked to bid the job it was "I don't know what they need figure on installing a small panel." Lucky for him they really only need two or three circuits.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You're in NC then you don't need the CEE. Just drive a few rods and you're good. I wish NC would stop amending that rule.

 

[jwjrw]

You're in NC then you don't need the CEE. Just drive a few rods and you're good. I wish NC would stop amending that rule.

Nc only amended the CCE on existing structures to my knowledge. Our amendment says...

AMENDMENT 250.50
Delete NEC 2008 text and replace with:
250.50 Grounding Electrode System. If available on premises at each building or structure served, each item in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(6) shall be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system. Where none of these electrodes are available, one or more of the electrodes specified in 250.52(A)(4) through (A)(7) shall be installed and used


I called the AHJ in two counties I have new construction projects going and they do enforce the CCE. IDK what is correct just what both AHJ's want.

 

[roger]

I wish NC would stop amending that rule.

Dennis, actually they don't keep amending it, they just chose to keep the wording of the 2002.

Roger

 

[renosteinke]

I really hate situations like these .... no matter how you handle it, it gets taken out on the customer.

If you just run a multi-wire circuit, you can bet that someone will soon add a panel to those #12's-and a 50 amp breaker. If you ran pipe, they might even pull big wire ... but there still will not be a grounding electrode.

You're past the point of no return. You have to choose who to piss off - the GC, the inspector, or the customer. Some choice.

It really looks like the only real solution is to re-do some of the concrete. Even so, there are a few options, so you need to have a chat with the AHJ as to his desires.

He might agree to your using another electrode arrangement; I'd look at the 30" trench/ rod wrapped in 2" of concrete alternative discussed in the NEC for rocky ground. Or, a compression connection to the rebar already in the slab - IF there is rebar in the slab. Or, maybe, use a concrete saw to cut a slot, place your copper in it, then fill with new concrete.

Of course, if the slab is thin enough, it might be easiest to just rip it out and do it over.

Your final option is to drop the job completely, leaving the GC and the customer to find another sparky. They've put you in a very bad position, considering the liklihood of your work being altered before the paint is dry.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis, actually they don't keep amending it, they just chose to keep the wording of the 2002.

Roger

You are right but whatever the case I wish they would use the 2008 wording and mandate this code.

I would bet if you called Ron Chilton he would tell you you don't need the CEE. Basically the wording of the 2002 left it arguable because by the time the electrician got there then the CEE was not accessible.

Again I am certain the CEE is not required in NC. BTW, I almost always use the CEE.

 

[jwjrw]

You are right but whatever the case I wish they would use the 2008 wording and mandate this code.

I would bet if you called Ron Chilton he would tell you you don't need the CEE. Basically the wording of the 2002 left it arguable because by the time the electrician got there then the CEE was not accessible.

Again I am certain the CEE is not required in NC. BTW, I almost always use the CEE.

You may be correct but the chief inspector in Lincoln county and the electrical inspector that came out in Mecklenburg county said I needed one. I think I will be calling Ron after the holidays. Thanks Dennis.

 

[jwjrw]

Just realized I even screwed the title of my thread up......As stated I meant CEE! :grin:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Just realized I even screwed the title of my thread up......As stated I meant CEE! :grin:

Yeah, we figured that out. :grin:

 

[jwjrw]

Basically the wording of the 2002 left it arguable because by the time the electrician got there then the CEE was not accessible.

My AHJ said I was there when I installed the conduit to the building AND since it is new construction and re-bar is present you must use it. That is their argument anyway.

 

[roger]

My AHJ said I was there when I installed the conduit to the building AND since it is new construction and re-bar is present you must use it. That is their argument anyway.

I would still be calling Ron and what's this about the thread title?

Roger

 

[Dennis Alwon]

My AHJ said I was there when I installed the conduit to the building AND since it is new construction and re-bar is present you must use it. That is their argument anyway.

That's a good argument. Usually the builders stub a piece of pipe up or, more often, I install the panel on the outside so I am not there. For outbuildiings I have not really used the cee and I don't see that as as important as using the CEE for a house or commercial building.

Looks like Roger fixed you up.

 

[ptonsparky]

Trusting someone to install a CEE around here is pure chance. Last one I checked up on had 3' vertical rebars stuck into the dirt at the bottom of his trench so it would be "grounded". They were going to lean another assembly against them as they poured the concrete. Even detailed instructions are a waste of breath.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Even detailed instructions are a waste of breath.

I have some builders trained and the others I have to stay on them about when they are ready to pour. There is no reason a builder cannot be trained to do this. The trick is making sure you know where the service is going to be at.

 

[hillbilly1]

You may be correct but the chief inspector in Lincoln county and the electrical inspector that came out in Mecklenburg county said I needed one. I think I will be calling Ron after the holidays. Thanks Dennis.

You mean the Country of Mecklenburg! :roll: They kinda do their own thing there.

 

[jwjrw]

You mean the Country of Mecklenburg! :roll: They kinda do their own thing there.

We like to think of it as " The Great State Of Mecklenburg" county.