Grounding a receptacle to cold water pipe

[GG]

What code cycle did the NEC prohibit you from grouding a 3 prong - 120 volt residential receptacle to the cold water pipe when you only had a hot and a nuetral at a receptacle that you wanted to ground? Was these ever acceptable? I can remember working for a guy 15 years ago who did this all the time and would tell me that the code allowed it.

 

[jxofaltrds]

what code cycle did the nec prohibit you from grouding a 3 prong - 120 volt residential receptacle to the cold water pipe when you only had a hot and a nuetral at a receptacle that you wanted to ground? Was these ever acceptable? I can remember working for a guy 15 years ago who did this all the time and would tell me that the code allowed it.

250.130(c).

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Still acceptable if you go to the water pipe within 5' of where it enters the building. Oh yeah the pipe was be metallic...

 

[jxofaltrds]

Still acceptable if you go to the water pipe within 5' of where it enters the building. Oh yeah the pipe was be metallic...

Can I nitpic?

It has to be before the GEC connection.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Can I nitpic?

I would expect nothing less. But I don't agree

 

[jxofaltrds]

I would expect nothing less. But I don't agree

Your argument?

Edit. Your edits do not show as edits. Must be nice!!!!

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Your argument?

What's yours ---I see nothing that says it must be before the GEC. It states any accessible point on the gec system. you think the system stops where the wire connects then show me where it is written.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Your argument?

Edit. Your edits do not show as edits. Must be nice!!!!

Yours didn't either. Looks like it is not working. I will fill in the reason for edit and see.

 

[jxofaltrds]

What's yours ---I see nothing that says it must be before the GEC. It states any accessible point on the gec system. you think the system stops where the wire connects then show me where it is written.

Because you can only connect the GEC to an electrode.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Because you can only connect the GEC to an electrode.

That is not an answer-- its a half answer to drag out the dialogue. The gec system extends to 5' from where the water pipe enters.

 

[GG]

So I can just grab a roll of bare #14 copper for 15 amp circuits and run this from the ground screw of the receptacle to 5' of the water pipe or even into the ground bus at a service panel? I did not know that has always been allowed. Thats good to know.

 

[jxofaltrds]

That is not an answer-- its a half answer to drag out the dialogue. The gec system extends to 5' from where the water pipe enters.

That is an assumption. Code reference?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So I can just grab a roll of bare #14 copper for 15 amp circuits and run this from the ground screw of the receptacle to 5' of the water pipe or even into the ground bus at a service panel? I did not know that has always been allowed. Thats good to know.

If I could I would run a new wire back to the panel rather than just a ground wire. Heck if you go thru that much trouble you may as well run a new cable.

 

[jxofaltrds]

So I can just grab a roll of bare #14 copper for 15 amp circuits and run this from the ground screw of the receptacle to 5' of the water pipe or even into the ground bus at a service panel? I did not know that has always been allowed. Thats good to know.

Short answer. Yes.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

That is an assumption. Code reference?

What do you mean an assumption. If the gec can connect anywhere within 5' then it appears the water pipe is an electrode for 5'. 250.52 last sentence before except.

 

[LarryFine]

If I could I would run a new wire back to the panel rather than just a ground wire. Heck if you go thru that much trouble you may as well run a new cable.

I agree. When asked about adding grounding to existing receptacles, I begin with "Why?" In most cases, it involves appliances, audio/video systems, or computer setups.

Just about every time, I recommend installing a new circuit for the new load instead. It's better for the new equipment, and alleviates the existing wiring of the additional load.

Oh, yeah. It also means a full-sized EGC run with its circuit conductors, positively connected at the circuit's source.

 

[jxofaltrds]

What do you mean an assumption. If the gec can connect anywhere within 5' then it appears the water pipe is an electrode for 5'. 250.52 last sentence before except.

Dennis you are correct. It 'appears'.

Back up a bit and read "to the points of connection***".

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis you are correct. It 'appears'.

Back up a bit and read "to the points of connection***".

Well now I am not so sure. Sort of ridiculous for the NEC to say the water pipe is good for 5' then say it stops at the connection.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Well now I am not so sure. Sort of ridiculous for the NEC to say the water pipe is good for 5' then say it stops at the connection.

I am with you Dennis probably no problem.

 

[OregonSE]

What code cycle did the NEC prohibit you from grouding a 3 prong - 120 volt residential receptacle to the cold water pipe when you only had a hot and a nuetral at a receptacle that you wanted to ground? Was these ever acceptable? I can remember working for a guy 15 years ago who did this all the time and would tell me that the code allowed it.

IMO,grounding a receptacle to a cold water pipe is a BAD idea even though permitted. There are to many failure possibilities. I have seen to many failures with this method which have caused injurys and fires. Stick with 300.3B.
IMO