Wall spaces in kitchens

Wall spaces in kitchens

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 15.6%

  • No

    Votes: 54 84.4%
  • Total voters
    64
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Jim W in Tampa said:
While we do need 120 for most gas ranges nothing says it must be behind the range. Typically it would be for looks but not required to be behind it. Same applies to the frig.
Note both can be on the SA circuit.
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Jim I agree but the most logical place for these receptacles typiclly are behind the appliance and if that is indeed the location they are installed would that not satisfy the wall space requirements as well? If we believe the space is wall space.
 
joebell said:
Jim I agree but the most logical place for these receptacles typiclly are behind the appliance and if that is indeed the location they are installed would that not satisfy the wall space requirements as well? If we believe the space is wall space.
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It is best location and with exception of frig also covers the space if nothing ends up there.
I mentioned frig because code permits it to be dedicated 15 amp and that would not pass as a SA. Personally with the new prices of copper I am not sure how I would wire a house today.
Being I am now retired from electrical very unlikely ever wire another house or anything. I did enjoy wiring high end homes. If economy was better I would retest and run a small 1 or 2 man operation with me just sitting back and doing nothing or just rent the license out. Building here has all but stoped, many projects put on hold and may never start.
 
joebell said:
I realize the receptacle is not required to be behind the appliance but the length of the cord only gives you so much lateral movement. I do not see a big difference a receptacle is required in this location for the equipment to function and it just so happens to fulfill the required receptacle for the wall space IMO.
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Correct....
 
hourglass52 said:
I haven't figured out how a 30 amp dryer rite next to a GFCI'ed washing mashine is safe.
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No need to.

The NEC is basically written by the proposals sent in.

If you put in a proposal for GFCI protection of that 30 amp dryer plug with some decent substantiation that it is a hazard and they might except it. :)
 
....if a wall is a wall is a wall, than the wall counter space above/behind a built in dishwasher counts as wall space, so the answer is, yes, it does count
 
Define "require" :D

My point isn't to debate semantics; rather, it is a cry of protest regarding the cords and pigtails that appliances use. Just try to place a receptacle where it isn't behind the appliance - and still have the cord reach.

Aesthetics (appearances) aside, I'd LOVE it if the fridge and range could be unplugged without first pulling them away from the wall, then going through gymnastic contortions to reach the plug. I'd LOVE to not have to pass the dishwasher plug through the side of the sink cabinet.

Otherwise, is it a good idea to have counter receptacles placed directly behind (and above) ranges and sinks? Heck, it wasn't that long ago that the only kitchen receptacle was the one the factory installed on the 'backsplash' of the range. Seemed appropriate when you were using a mixer or electric knife. Then I think of all the clocks, radios, etc., I find mounted on the window ledge behind the sink, and the idea doesn't seem so bad, after all.
 
jusme123 said:
. . . .if a wall is a wall is a wall. . . .
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Who says that a wall is a wall is a wall, and in particular where does the NEC say that? When I had new countertops installed a couple years ago, I took the opportunity to shift some of the lower cabinets. Lo and behold, I discovered that there was a wall behind the lower cabinets; I had never seen it before! But there were no receptacles installed in that wall, which is no surprise since the NEC does not take that wall area into account. So perhaps there are ?walls? and there are ?walls.?
jusme123 said:
. . . then the wall counter space above/behind a built in dishwasher counts as wall space. . . .
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No, it counts as ?wall counter space.? Thus, 210.52(C)(1) applies, and 210.52(A)(2) does not.
 
I was wrong. The receptacle does not have to be 'behind' the range. Only requirement is that the wall space be counted. So a counter top receptacle "wall" would meet 250.52(A)(2).

I forgot to read 250.52(A)(1).
 
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