Air not so tite

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S'mise

S'mise

Senior Member
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Michigan
I have air tite IC cans here at home that are not so air tite. (halo brand) I can definately feel a draft when holding my hand below them. Does anyone know of a better quality and tighter seal can for a better insulation value? Or maybe a suggestion for an alternative fixture (retrofit) to my 6" cans?

Now, where did I leave my sweater?
 
Caulk it

Caulk it

Had you applied a bead of caulk around the opening between the lip of the can and the ceiling material? If not that may help to seal it up and it's usually stated in the installation instructions to do that.
 
This is info for the H7ICAT. I have never seen anything about caulking but I bet that will help. Some trims have gasketed material that may help-- I have seen that on the 4" can trims.

The H7 recessed housings are the standard in the industry for both commercial and residential applications. The wide variety of trims available allows a number of different lighting effects to be created with one basic housing. The H7ICATNB is designed for installations where the housing will be in direct contact with insulation. Additionally, the H7ICAT housing meets restricted air flow requirements.
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I usually install Lightolier and rarely use Halo. For the Lightolier IC Air Seal cans the instructions state...

5. AIRSEAL? INSTALLATION (optional)
Install a bead of silicone caulking compound between the
ceiling opening and edge of HOUSING. Housings are tested in
accordance with ASTM E 283 (max 2 cfm @ 75 pa) and comply
with WSEC & MEC when installed as instructed.
Click to expand...
I hadn't checked Halo's instructions and I meant it more in the spirit that it should be ok to apply a bead of caulk and don't just take my word for it because it's listed in the instructions too. I didn't know that Halo didn't have that in their instructions. I try to back up what I post with a way to verify it else where and that's why I had said it should be in the instructions, oops.:)
 
Drafty

Drafty

I did not do the install myself. Halo fixtures (the ones I've installed) come with a foam gasket on the lip so they are sealed prety well even without caulk. The problem is not there at the lip. I am talking about the inside portion. (around the lamp) I can feel a cold draft comming from the inside. Maybe I'm picky but I think the insulation is quite poor. I guess my thinking is; with the advent of cooler lamps (fluorescent or LED)...Does anyone make a totally sealed fixture that has no air leaks at all? Yes, I can access some of the fixtures in the attic and heap more insulation on them but I would like to eliminate any leaks whatsoever.
 
I put some old work cans in that came with tape to cover the mounting tab holes. Never know what is left in the box at the suppyhouse til you read the instructions.
 
S'mise said:
I have air tite IC cans here at home that are not so air tite. (halo brand) I can definately feel a draft when holding my hand below them. Does anyone know of a better quality and tighter seal can for a better insulation value? Or maybe a suggestion for an alternative fixture (retrofit) to my 6" cans?

Now, where did I leave my sweater?
Click to expand...


You may have an HVAC air flow issue. If your return air is undersized, designed poorly or is somehow blocked, the air handler/furnace will suck air from anywhere it can. Open a door or window a tiny bit and check for incoming air. There shouldn't be any. Also, open a door/window and see if the draft from the can goes away.
 
drafty halo recessed cans

drafty halo recessed cans

These cans are on the second floor with attic space above it. There are NO hvac trunks or ducting (at all) in the attic so I don't think thats an issue. Mind you, the attic is well vented so yes... When the furnace comes on it can draw air thru the cans (or anywhere else not insulated) I have double checked that they are Halo 6ricat (air tight) but the draft is quite evident. I have installed these same cans in the past and don't remember having to apply tape or anything else to them. What I would like is to just replace them with a fixture that is completely sealed. Does such a thing exist? One option I have heard of, is to build a small box over each light (drywall or other non combustable) to do a better job of insulation.
Sound like as much work as just replacing them.

Thanks for your input guys.
 
Air tight fixtures are sealed better than other fixtures but they are not 'air tight'.

there is still gaps between the ceiling cut out and the fixture, there is at the very least a flex conduit entering the can with the conductors for the lamp.

any pressure difference between living space and other side of ceiling is going to leak some air.
 
S'mise said:
I have double checked that they are Halo 6ricat (air tight) but the draft is quite evident.
Thanks for your input guys.
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I have never seen a H6 can-- I think you mean H7RICAT.

The Halo cans restrict flow of air but do not eliminate it. The H7UICAT have a metal box around the round cylinder and are more air tite, IMO. I would probably get some hard insulation- blue board styrofoam or something like that- and build a box around it. Tape the joints well.

The H7UICAT are about 3 times more costly then the H7ICAT.
 
Another thing is that the Halo cans are air tite when used in conjunction with the appropriate trim. The 30WAT or 30PAT trims have a cone that fit inside the can to seal the air. There is also a gasket at the top where the socket snaps in.
 
Air-Tite

Air-Tite

S'mise said:
I have air tite IC cans here at home that are not so air tite. (halo brand) I can definately feel a draft when holding my hand below them. Does anyone know of a better quality and tighter seal can for a better insulation value? Or maybe a suggestion for an alternative fixture (retrofit) to my 6" cans?

Now, where did I leave my sweater?
Click to expand...

As has been discussed, the current "Air-Tite" requirements should really be "reduced air flow". Two things I have done to further reduce the air flow to/from the attic are:
1) Seal all of the holes on the exterior of the lighting fixture can with HVAC metal duct tape, including the holes the trim springs clip into. The springs will poke through the tape fairly easily.
2) If you have the time and the access, build a box of gypsum board (drywall) around the fixture in the attic and seal it to the ceiling. This is what we used to do before Air-Tite and IC fixtures were common and cheap. This method also meets fire code if you build the box with the same material that the ceiling is made of.
 
I dont see how a box will work, but you said it did so okay.

what i ran into with insulation piles over the tops of the cans was the thermal overload tripping causing the can lite to blink. i think a box would do the same. i think if you can access the attic you should be able to do either the duct tape thing or just pile insulation all round the outside of the can except but none on top of the can. other option is shower lenses for each lite. $25 each. i dont see why that good duct tape wouldnt stay put on the inside of the can with a CFL bulb.
you could at least put the tape on the inside of ONE light, then see if that stopped anything. could be just the hole the rockers cut wasnt tightenuf either.
 
bullheimer said:
I dont see how a box will work, but you said it did so okay.

what i ran into with insulation piles over the tops of the cans was the thermal overload tripping causing the can lite to blink. i think a box would do the same. i think if you can access the attic you should be able to do either the duct tape thing or just pile insulation all round the outside of the can except but none on top of the can. other option is shower lenses for each lite. $25 each. i dont see why that good duct tape wouldnt stay put on the inside of the can with a CFL bulb.
you could at least put the tape on the inside of ONE light, then see if that stopped anything. could be just the hole the rockers cut wasnt tightenuf either.
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If thermal insulation is causing light to cycle on and off you either have too large of a lamp or a non insulated ceiling rated fixture.
 
i didnt take the offending overload out and analyze it, i just moved the insulation away and problem solved. i think we all know a can lite always says @65W max. okay, well never say always, but i put all the lights in this house in, and light bulbs. i can bet you the overload was made in china. land of the utmost in quality control
 
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Thanks Dennis and everyone else. Good points. Yes, they are H7RICAT.

Like I said, I heard of "boxing in" the fixture but I didn't think of using blueboard.
The metal duct tape sounds like a good as long as I keep a cool lamp in them. But then again won't that be a violation to cover the vent? Say someone changes the cfl to a hot lamp. An inspector would probably have a field day.

I was kind of hoping there was some new type of super sealed fixture that might be out there. Well, I think my best bet is to just box them in and tape up the seals.

A few questions;
How much clearance is needed around the box? (from can to blueboard surface)
Am I alowed to conceal the jbox portion of the fixture or just the can?
 
If you don't at least check the HVAC. you will always have a problem.

Turn the blower off and see if the draft goes away.

If it's HVAC, you could build boxes all around the cans and it will just suck air from somehere else.
 
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