Code question PRE 1990 code re: kitchen outlets

[Sierrasparky]

Does anyone have a code book prior to 1990. I want to know if it was required to have receptacles at peninsulas and Islands prior to the 1990 code cycle. I looked at my 1990 and it is require, however there is the infamous line down the side letting you know it was re-written.

Thanks

 

[Dennis Alwon]

480 Sparky (KEN) is our resident historian. Hopefully he will chime in soon. It is early in Iowa.

 

[SEO]

Island and peninsular counter tops were added to the 1990 NEC section 210.52(c).

Not in 1987 and prior.

 

[sameguy]

When I did resi. back in the early 80s we had to put openings for island and penns. the spacing was wider, but I think it was code back then.

 

[480sparky]

Looks like I'm too late.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Thanks all.
Now that that has been clarified and the new home may have been built under the 1980's code. Here is the scenario. The kitchen counter is as follows:
Wall - Refrigerator-3/4 inch wood frame around refrigerator- Peninsula counter- sink- peninsula counter.
Please note that the granite counter is continuos from fridge though the sink to the end counter space.


The home inspector ( buyers inspection) cited no receptacles at either pininsula directly after fridge or the peninsula counter after the sink. What do you folks think if this was built under the pre-1990 code?

 

[480sparky]

The problem with most HIs is they're applying today's codes to existing structures, and have no idea what the codes used to state.

Also, the house could have been built with an AHJ using a home-brewed code, or no code at all at the time.

Either way, the HI report is by no means a requirement that a receptacle be installed. It is simply a negotiating tool.

 

[Sierrasparky]

There was no home brewed code in place. I am only concerned with what was the code at the time the home was built and how it was to be applied.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Is this a tract home or a custom? You also have to go by plan check date. If it was a tract that took awhile to build out, you could have plan checked it in '87, but it didn't get finaled until '93. Though it still could be a custom with an older plan check date.

And I agree about the HI's inspecting per the new codes, they never go and pull the permits to see when the house was built.

 

[SEO]

Have the infamous HI cite a code reference out of the NEC that was in effect when the house was built.

 

[480sparky]

Another issue is what edition of the NEC (if that's what was adopted) was enforced at the time of the permit.

For instance, if the house was built in 1987, it could easily have been the 1984, 1981, heck even the 1978 NEC that was enforced at the time the permit was obtained.

 

[LarryFine]

Have the infamous HI cite a code reference out of the NEC that was in effect when the house was built.

That won't make any difference. HI's try to cite rules that never existed, too.

 

[roger3829]

That won't make any difference. HI's try to cite rules that never existed, too.

And if the HI's say it's so......Then it must be true......They know FAR more than us dumb electricians.........

 

[Sierrasparky]

Hey guys my primary goal is how to interpet the pre- 1990 code regarding pininsula and island in my particular instance. I don't have a copy of any prior codes than '90 to refrence.
I would appreciate some input as to how the counter top receptacles were applied in my case pre-1990.


Yes I appreciate the comments as to HI and the fact he not the AHJ.
Thanks.

 

[pete m.]

I would appreciate some input as to how the counter top receptacles were applied in my case pre-1990.

From the 1987 NEC section 210-52(B): "In kitchen and dining areas of dwelling units a receptacle outlet shall be installed at each counter space wider than 12 inches. Counter top spaces separated by range tops, refridgerators, or sinks shall be considered as separate counter top spaces. Receptacles rendered inaccessible by appliances fastened in place or appliances occupying dedicated space shall not be considered as theses required outlets."

The 1984 NEC section 210-52(B) reads the same way.
The 1981 NEC section 210-52(B) reads the same way.
The 1978 NEC section 210-25(B) also contains the same verbiage (one interesting note is that section 210-25(A) requires receptacles outlets located "Where flexible cords are used")

Now I have to go back and read the 2008 NEC again or I'll get it all wrong and start enforcing the '78...

Pete

 

[Sierrasparky]

From the 1987 NEC section 210-52(B): "In kitchen and dining areas of dwelling units a receptacle outlet shall be installed at each counter space wider than 12 inches. Counter top spaces separated by range tops, refridgerators, or sinks shall be considered as separate counter top spaces. Receptacles rendered inaccessible by appliances fastened in place or appliances occupying dedicated space shall not be considered as theses required outlets."

The 1984 NEC section 210-52(B) reads the same way.
The 1981 NEC section 210-52(B) reads the same way.
The 1978 NEC section 210-25(B) also contains the same verbiage (one interesting note is that section 210-25(A) requires receptacles outlets located "Where flexible cords are used")

Now I have to go back and read the 2008 NEC again or I'll get it all wrong and start enforcing the '78...

Pete

Very interesting. Although the code added peninsula and Island it appears that those spaces required outlets also.

Thanks

 

[480sparky]

Most likely, the changes came about due to the way kitchen peninsulas were being used. In the 'old days', peninsulas were just a knee wall with base cabinets against it with enough space for a backsplash.

Around the time of the code change, a lot of people were probably building peninsulas to act as eating & dining surfaces (ie: bar stools) instead of prep areas. The lack of a backsplash made installing receps according to the 24" rule much harder.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Most likely, the changes came about due to the way kitchen peninsulas were being used. In the 'old days', peninsulas were just a knee wall with base cabinets against it with enough space for a backsplash.

Around the time of the code change, a lot of people were probably building peninsulas to act as eating & dining surfaces (ie: bar stools) instead of prep areas. The lack of a backsplash made installing receps according to the 24" rule much harder.

Not seeing the entire code to me it seems tha if there is a counter space it must have an outlet. Just becuase there was no back splash so what.

What I don't get is why the outlet needs to be placed on the end and not under the overhang of the counter today. I feel that it is more likely that someone walking past the counter could pull on the cord and have something dangerous result.

 

[480sparky]

.............What I don't get is why the outlet needs to be placed on the end and not under the overhang of the counter today...............

Where does it state the recep must be on the end?

 

[LarryFine]

What I don't get is why the outlet needs to be placed on the end and not under the overhang of the counter today.

If you mean a receptacle on the bottom, facing the floor, I've done that to get the receptacle close enough to the edge of a large overhang.

Wiremold is your friend.